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FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

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Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#101

Post by BeetleB »

walshemj wrote: post #97
BeetleB wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Edit: My comment is about the fear-mongering part, not the racist part). >What if these were Russians and the title was "FBI Says Russian Operatives..." would you have said it's straight up racist fear-mongering? Yes, I would call it fear mongering. What exactly have these operatives done? What can these operatives do? International students are required to be registered full time, or they'll be in violation of thei…

You know spies generally don't fill in tax returns - though one Russian illegal in the UK ran a very successful one armed bandit / pinball company as part of his cover.

Failing to see the relevance of tax returns not being filled.

I'll ask my original question.

Have these "operatives" done anything that is not particularly unusual compared to other student groups? Until they have, this fits the very description of fear mongering.

You don't magically have access to anything just by entering the US.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#102

Post by walshemj »

IntronExon wrote: post #21
nyolfen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the fbi is law enforcement. behaving as secret police is not a positive alternative.

The FBI’s remit includes domestic counterintelligence.

it probley wound be better if the usa split the FBI in two

1 A federal police force (with reduced surveillance powers) which would take over the BATF and the currency and uniformed part of the secret service.

2 A separate contra espionage organisation similar to MI5

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#103

Post by z2 »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #52
rdtsc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if these were Russians and the title was "FBI Says Russian Operatives..." would you have said it's straight up racist fear-mongering? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...

I wasn't just reacting to the title, but the body too. If the whole article was just s/China/Russia/g I would react the same way. On a geopolitical scale China is probably a bigger threat to the United States than Russia these days anyway.

Indeed, I'm frustrated in any of these situations where ambiguity seems purposeful. Is it "The Chinese" government? citizens? race? The article begins with Chinese government-sponsored operatives, which is OK, because at least it is a specific accusation that can be discussed. But then it immediately generalizes to list the number of Chinese nationals enrolled, perhaps to allude to the potential scale. (Your classmate or colleague could be a Chinese spy!) That to me seems a few steps away from "Well, I've read these reports about how the Chinese want to steal everything, so I'm going to pass on hiring this guy with the funny Asian name." or more extremely, "Well, we know that not that everyone is a bad guy, but for security, let's round them up into camps, just in case."

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#104

Post by walshemj »

BeetleB wrote: post #101
walshemj wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know spies generally don't fill in tax returns - though one Russian illegal in the UK ran a very successful one armed bandit / pinball company as part of his cover.

Failing to see the relevance of tax returns not being filled. I'll ask my original question. Have these "operatives" done anything that is not particularly unusual compared to other student groups? Until they have, this fits the very description of fear mongering. You don't magically have access to anything just by entering the US.

Economic and other open source info is much easier to get at and also interesting research in universities. Spying on expat groups is another favorite.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#105

Post by sehugg »

Clubber wrote: post #94
noetic_techy wrote: post #88

And we continue to tolerate those who wouldn't tolerate us... Even the Chinese have a word for these people who naively defend and turn a blind eye to this sort of thing: "Baizou". From Wikipedia: "The word baizuo is, according to political scientist Zhang Chenchen, a Chinese word that ridicules Western "liberal elites". He further defined the word "baizuo" with the definition "People who only care about topics such…

That sounds a lot like it would come straight from right wing propaganda from the wording.

It literally means "the white left" so yeah, pretty much.

Also not sure what this word has to do with FBI anti-intelligence efforts.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#106

Post by Keyframe »

coliveira wrote: post #81
DanAndersen wrote: post #32

During my undergrad university days (at the University of Utah), I took some Mandarin classes. There was a local Confucius Institute which provided various free materials in Chinese to the campus library. The extent of my direct contact with them was receiving a couple hundred dollars for doing well in a Mandarin speech contest they held for my class. It was obvious that there was a certain propaganda aspect to this…

All countries have some kind of educational projects like this. The German, for example, have the Goethe Institute that is active around the world. It seems now that the US now wants to criminalize this kind of diplomatic activity just because it is coming from a commercial competitor.

Yes, lots of countries do that. UK has British Council.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#107

Post by baq »

platinumrad wrote: post #49
rdtsc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if these were Russians and the title was "FBI Says Russian Operatives..." would you have said it's straight up racist fear-mongering? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...

Not technically "racist" but in my opinion much of the treatment of Russia in the media is highly prejudiced.

as somebody whose country has been a puppet state of moscow for 50-ish years, the media is nowhere close to having the full picture, but in the opposite direction.

tl;dr: please.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#108

Post by davesque »

Honestly, is this news? Is it anything new that there are people roaming around university campuses that intend to make inroads into young, impressionable minds?

When I was at university, I remember there was an organization called "Horizons" which would show up to a number of social events and invite people to their building located near campus for free dinner. Of course, they were a Christian organization and were keen to sell their religion in this way.

I remember thinking it was a bit disingenuous but mostly just saw it as being silly. Students would go to get free dinner but seemed mostly capable of avoiding being indoctrinated. I think people such as those from the Confucius Institute should be regarded similarly. That is, they should not be seen as a real threat.

What concerns me is that giving attention to these things in the wrong way will only encourage people to develop a xenophobic attitude towards foreign students. I don't think there's legitimate cause for concern here. The overall culture and message of academia -- that one should investigate for one's self and see -- still seems intact and should be capable of standing up on its own, even if some seek to infiltrate it with their own agendas.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#109

Post by gruez »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #84
toephu2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What no-name state school cost $100k/yr for international students? It is absurdly more expensive for int'l students but not $100k/yr. For example UC Berkeley costs $45k/year for international students [1]. [1] https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/students/current/ex...

In your same link the undergrad living expenses is $64k/yr.

live off campus?

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#110

Post by baq »

rhizome wrote: post #51
edraferi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Page 12 of the DNI's statement [0] in yesterday's hearing: China, for example, has acquired proprietary technology and early-stage ideas through cyberenabled means. At the same time, some actors use largely legitimate, legal transfers and relationships to gain access to research fields, experts, and key enabling industrial processes that could, over time, erode America’s long-term competitive advantages [0] http…

That could be said about any student who is a citizen of another country.

you must compare the level of assymetry in those relations.
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