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FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

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Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#81

Post by coliveira »

DanAndersen wrote: post #32

During my undergrad university days (at the University of Utah), I took some Mandarin classes. There was a local Confucius Institute which provided various free materials in Chinese to the campus library. The extent of my direct contact with them was receiving a couple hundred dollars for doing well in a Mandarin speech contest they held for my class. It was obvious that there was a certain propaganda aspect to this…

All countries have some kind of educational projects like this. The German, for example, have the Goethe Institute that is active around the world. It seems now that the US now wants to criminalize this kind of diplomatic activity just because it is coming from a commercial competitor.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#82

Post by criddell »

meowface wrote: post #10
Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

They're not talking about students from China, but rather Chinese intelligence agents posing as students, professors, researchers, etc.

What is the threat though? Aren't most university research programs very open and don't they publish everything they can get published? I understand the part about not wanting spies working for telecom companies (for example) because they could mess with our infrastructure. What's the issue with being inside a university?

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#83

Post by jogjayr »

mywittyname wrote: post #67
olyjohn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I worked at a community college whose bread and butter was international students. Lots of them had really expensive cars. Not sure why China would send hundreds of operatives to infiltrate a community college and then pay to put them in flashy cars. It's more likely just rich parents.

Even the ones driving 15 year old Chryslers likely have wealthy parents. University is absurdly expensive for international students of no particular note. On the order of $100k/yr in tuition for a no-name state school. What's another $50k when you're spending half a million dollars to educate your kid?

The other reply has clarified that state schools don't cost that much. But just to add on, a lot of international students are merely upper-middle class in their own countries (i.e. family has 1 non-luxury car, lives in a 2 bedroom apartment, takes 1 international vacation every 3-5 years). They take out student loans just like American students and count on paid internships and post-completion Optional Practical Training jobs to pay off those loans. While they're studying they tend to live very frugally - no cars, very little eating out or partying, sharing rooms etc.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#84

Post by Consultant32452 »

toephu2 wrote: post #75
mywittyname wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the ones driving 15 year old Chryslers likely have wealthy parents. University is absurdly expensive for international students of no particular note. On the order of $100k/yr in tuition for a no-name state school. What's another $50k when you're spending half a million dollars to educate your kid?

What no-name state school cost $100k/yr for international students? It is absurdly more expensive for int'l students but not $100k/yr. For example UC Berkeley costs $45k/year for international students [1]. [1] https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/students/current/ex...

In your same link the undergrad living expenses is $64k/yr.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#85

Post by [deleted] »

mywittyname wrote: post #67
olyjohn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I worked at a community college whose bread and butter was international students. Lots of them had really expensive cars. Not sure why China would send hundreds of operatives to infiltrate a community college and then pay to put them in flashy cars. It's more likely just rich parents.

Even the ones driving 15 year old Chryslers likely have wealthy parents. University is absurdly expensive for international students of no particular note. On the order of $100k/yr in tuition for a no-name state school. What's another $50k when you're spending half a million dollars to educate your kid?

[deleted]

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#86

Post by ComodoHacker »

txsh wrote: post #72
PricelessValue wrote: post #48

Isn't this well known fact? It isn't a secret that the chinese, along with the israelis, russians, british, french, japanese, koreans, canadians and even the saudis have operatives in academia, government, business, etc. And of course we have operatives in all those countries as well.

Every country spies on every other country. But not every country steals foreign technology for its companies.

Yeah, only those who are capable.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#87

Post by BeetleB »

rdtsc wrote: post #44
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #8

Wow, this seems like straight-up racist fearmongering. The Chinese have "infliltrated" our schools by attending and starting culturally oriented studies? What's wrong with setting up classes for studying Mandarin, the #1 most popular language on the planet?

What if these were Russians and the title was "FBI Says Russian Operatives..." would you have said it's straight up racist fear-mongering? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management...

(Edit: My comment is about the fear-mongering part, not the racist part).

>What if these were Russians and the title was "FBI Says Russian Operatives..." would you have said it's straight up racist fear-mongering?

Yes, I would call it fear mongering. What exactly have these operatives done? What can these operatives do?

International students are required to be registered full time, or they'll be in violation of their visa, and since 2001, universities are proactive in flagging these people down. They are only allowed to work 20 hours a week, and only on campus. Internships are allowed if part of their degree program. So it's not as if they are coming in and then running around doing heavy subversive stuff.

As foreign students, they do not have accessive to anything any other student has access to. If a professor is doing anything classified, they need to get clearance for their students, and likely are not allowed Chinese/Russian students at all.

In terms of their promoting their values/culture aggressively: Well join the club! They're doing exactly what every other group on campus is doing (many with support from their embassies).

But to get to the original statement: Yes, it is fear mongering because the article failed to indicate any kind of damage being caused that is beyond the norm for groups on campus. Industrial espionage? Show me some proof or examples. This is pretty much the same as saying "Beware! Commies on campus!" Or "Beware! Muslims on campus!" or "Beware! Abortionists on campus!"

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#88

Post by noetic_techy »

And we continue to tolerate those who wouldn't tolerate us...

Even the Chinese have a word for these people who naively defend and turn a blind eye to this sort of thing: "Baizou".

From Wikipedia:

"The word baizuo is, according to political scientist Zhang Chenchen, a Chinese word that ridicules Western "liberal elites". He further defined the word "baizuo" with the definition "People who only care about topics such as immigration, minorities, LGBT and the environment" and “have no sense of real problems in the real world”; they are hypocritical humanitarians who advocate for peace and equality only to “satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority”; they are “obsessed with political correctness” to the extent that they “tolerate backwards Islamic values for the sake of multiculturalism”; they believe in the welfare state that “benefits only the idle and the free riders”; they are the “ignorant and arrogant westerners” who “pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours”.[7] The term has also been used to refer to perceived double standards of the Western media, such as the alleged bias on reporting about Islamist attacks in Xinjiang."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#89

Post by specialist »

Cyberdog wrote: post #25

Australia has of late had its own issues involving accusations of Chinese espionage as well as good old-fashioned palm-greasing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Dastyari#Chinese_influence... If the US starts clamping down on this sort of thing, expect China to accuse the US government of xenophobia, since of course "we'd like to stop so many Chinese agents and toadies from infiltrating our governmental and educatio…

Persecution complex, projection, feigning incredulity... Hypocracy is SOP for bullies.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#90

Post by jeffdavis »

coliveira wrote: post #81
DanAndersen wrote: post #32

During my undergrad university days (at the University of Utah), I took some Mandarin classes. There was a local Confucius Institute which provided various free materials in Chinese to the campus library. The extent of my direct contact with them was receiving a couple hundred dollars for doing well in a Mandarin speech contest they held for my class. It was obvious that there was a certain propaganda aspect to this…

All countries have some kind of educational projects like this. The German, for example, have the Goethe Institute that is active around the world. It seems now that the US now wants to criminalize this kind of diplomatic activity just because it is coming from a commercial competitor.

Criminalize? Where did you get that from?
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