Live data from Hacker News

AMP for email is a terrible idea

techcrunch.com

181–190 of 483 posts

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#181

I, for one, welcome our new AMP overlords. As a marketer emails are really limited. This opens up possibility of higher engagement and less friction for what you want Gmail customers to do. I work for a loan company - get a rate quote IN YOUR EMAIL! Customer saves time and I just cut 2 steps out of our funnel. The required coding and browser compatibility scare me a bit though. Nothing to piss off consumers than an e…

As a user, screw you. Sorry to be harsh, but the fact of the matter is the harder your life is, the easier my life becomes, no joke.

I dont want AMP. In fact, I want emails to go the other way. It already annoys me that email marketers can track whether i have read their email or not.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s say you’re an engineer about to roll out a feature to (literally) a billion users. Through testing, you know your feature is busted for the ~14.5% of your users who use Safari. But it’s not your fault! Apple should fix it. Quick quiz: do you release a feature that is broken for 145M users, which brokenness they might plausibly encounter multiple times a day? In a typical organization, the answer would probably…

You could turn that around and ask why Apple didn't bother to fix something that was causing pain for some of their users and continued not to fix it after it was causing pain for most of their users. Google made a bad engineering decision, but I would place most of the blame on Apple. It's the same for IE and web applications that didn't work in that browser. Luckily, people (for the most part) stopped using IE. We…

It doesn’t feel equivalent to me; I tend to think that there’s a meaningful distinction between a bug known before shipping and a bug discovered after.

That said, it’s fair to ask why Apple hasn’t placed priority on the scrolling bug, post-AMP. What the real dynamics are I can only guess; I’d love to hear from lurking AMP or WebKit engineers.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#183
post #118
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the exact opposite opinion then. I moved to DuckDuckGo on iOS because I thought the AMP formatted Google search results were so user-hostile. Maybe they’ve fixed the bizarre scrolling and overly sensitive links by now, but I see no reason to find out, because I don’t feel like I’m missing anything.

I know the scrolling issues we're bugs in webkit. Google (I believe) started to employ a webkit dev to fix the problems.

No, not really. Most UX issues with AMP on Safari rather stem from the approach Google has taken with the html. For instance, it’s not a WebKit bug that tapping the top of the screen on an AMP page does not scroll to top - something that works on virtually all other webpages.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree on the topic of systemd. A lot of what it does definitely needed changing — although systemd implements that change suboptimally. Take the logind concept: In the past, Linux screensavers were simply a fullscreen window in front of everything else. They crashed? Your system unlocked. With logind, you have one tiny separate daemon that spawns your original X session, and the screensaver. As long as t…

That’s just bad design to begin with, replaced by a ln inefficient kitchen sink of a solution. Why should the screensaver be part of this megalith? Edit: to be clear, it’s not about the binary used to run the screensaver, it’s about the fact that it does not need to be a question of “all or nothing” and that a solution for this particular problem could have been adopted without replacing virtually every other compone…

As I wrote in the comment you replied to, the screensaver is NOT part of the init system, nor is logind part of the init system.

logind is developed by systemd, but a separate binary. In fact, every systemd project is a separate binary, just developed by the same project. Systemd is as much a monolith as KDE is.

Second, this tiny little logind binary is separate from the screensaver. It does not contain the screensaver, nor the lock screen, nor does it link to them.

This tiny process spawns the session and screensaver, and simply switches between them based on a signal. It's the tiniest possible concept for handling this task.

In general, I'd prefer if you could be more specific about your criticism, e.g. how this separate tiny binary is a "kitchen sink" and the screensaver, which is entirely separate from logind and systemd, is "part of a megalith".

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#185
Personal communications are gone from email. They now happen in Whatsapp. Gradually some one-on-one business communications are also moving to Whatsapp. If Whatsapp ever figures out business communications at large, email is practically dead. Excluding viagra spam, this means that nearly 99% of legit communications that are today received in personal email accounts are automated emails (transactional or bulk email). No wonder why Google wants to reinvent email into some kind of personal engaging spot before it completely dies for personal use.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#186

Personal communications are gone from email. They now happen in Whatsapp. Gradually some one-on-one business communications are also moving to Whatsapp. If Whatsapp ever figures out business communications at large, email is practically dead. Excluding viagra spam, this means that nearly 99% of legit communications that are today received in personal email accounts are automated emails (transactional or bulk email).…

Whatsapp usage varies wildly depending on region. A fragmented walled garden ecosystem populated by other apps like Messenger, Line, Kakao Talk, WeChat, etc will not kill email.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can run it on any platform, so long as it's Google's. The best user choice since the color of your Model T.

And it will supplant Duo and Allo, that were/are supposed to supplant (or augment, or co-exist -- can't we all just get along?) Hangouts, that was supposed to integrate SMS and MMS, but bollocks. Anyway, I prefer my email to remain immutable after initial transmission. I don't need another Snapbookthingie... Which reminds me, Google: You already hosed search results with your first... or second, or third, buzzzzzz...…

> You want "social" and "changing content"? Bring back Reader.

But we can't blast you with ads via Reader. What's the point of that?

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#188
The author has really limited understanding of the enterprise world I believe.

Email doesn't belong to a company? Nice one. It belongs to Google and Microsoft.

And this kind of change signifies three things immediately:

1. Being terrible means it's likely to happen and not really stoppable. They've already thought about how many people won't like it and still decided to go for it.

2. They try for a long time to have this more interactive messaging experience. Thinking Google Wave and Google Plus here. They have not understood that Slack/Wechat have solved that in a much more elegant way already. So they try again and again. This one will also fail to produce the vision they have. Google simply doesn't get that Web 3.0 interactivity. For us it's okay, it just means at some points other companies will take Google's place, and it will become that old, annoying giant like IBM and Microsoft before them.

3. Touching Email in this way also means that they are becoming desparate. Maybe not about profit yet, but certainly about the visionary aspects of the company. Email is one of their core components. You don't F* with those unless you really feel desperate.

It is not at all about users. It's about survival. Therefore the arguments presented in the article aren't even close to being good. A good article would figure out why they are so desparate and suggest things that they could do in favor of their users that still will increase their survivability.

Buying Slack and integrating it with their office suite might just solve their problem. It will be super expensive but might bring them onto the next level. Just a quick, stupid suggestion as example for what the article should've been about.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#189

" “modernize” email, allowing “engaging, interactive, and actionable email experiences.” " Whenever a service or company purports to make something "engaging" and "interactive" you just know that useability and actual, tangible usefulness are going to go out the window in favour of marketer-driven choices. We don't 'engage more' with your software/service because you changed everything to optimise for engagement and…

FWIW it's already possible to build apps inside email. There are now full ecommerce stores that run inside gmail messages.

Please give some examples. This sounds horrible, but therefore also true.

Re: AMP for email is a terrible idea

#190

Because they didn't internalize the feedback from Wave well enough I guess. /s I agree with the article, email is email. But it points out something which is fundamentally a problem for the industry. Some software is done as in doesn't need to change any more. That is a scary place since all those Gmail engineers need to do something so if it isn't adding new things to Gmail what will they do? Interesting parallel in…

I have to disagree on the topic of systemd. A lot of what it does definitely needed changing — although systemd implements that change suboptimally. Take the logind concept: In the past, Linux screensavers were simply a fullscreen window in front of everything else. They crashed? Your system unlocked. With logind, you have one tiny separate daemon that spawns your original X session, and the screensaver. As long as t…

This thread here is obviously the wrong place to roll out the systemd discussion again.
Post reply on HN