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Bringing AMP to Gmail

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Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#121

Post by yellow_postit »

shostack wrote: post #117
dannyw wrote: post #9

With AMP for Email, Google is keeping users within Gmail when when they’re interacting with your website or service. The strategy of Google / AMP is clear: using its monopoly to convert the open web into properties of Google. AMP is as “open” as Adobe Flash (Flex, etc) is open. Sure, it may he open source, but it is encumbered by license keys (see: AMP Cache), special privileges (again see: Google search cache), and…

I wonder what this will do to third party conversion tracking. Email is a primary marketing channel for many businesses with Gmail as a primary email client of their audiences.

Ensure that the conversion tracking is done through google properties

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#122

Post by 3pt14159 »

jacquesm wrote: post #108
pmlnr wrote: post #4

I genuinely fear the future of email. Email is still the only piece of communication you can own, from top to bottom, from running the service to owning the domain[^1] it runs on. You were able to send anyone email, regardless of rank, location, social status. Google (and recently, Outlook) is taking all of it away. It's putting mail from people not on your contact list in spam[^3]; it's by default blaclisting IPs wi…

I run my own mail server and Google - for once - seems to play reasonably nice, it is Microsoft and Apple that are the harder cases, in part because they outsourced some of their vetting to third parties. I've been mulling switching to Google or some other email provider for a long time and I still feel that this is the last bit of corporate independence that I'm willing to give up. Our mail is ours . I don't care of…

The core problem jacquesm is that we have n-to-n communication with email, no fiscal burden to fire up an email address, and the asynchronous nature of the platform means that its just the perfect target for spam and social engineering.

If you want to fix email you can, but it would be better to fix the internet first. Communication should be over an encrypted web of trust. Once you have that then email easily bolts right on. The only thing holding back this change is that the business model of the internet is rooted in surveillance because the web is largely monetized via advertising.

In the mean time semi-bridged walled gardens are going to be the answer to the growing hostilities on the internet.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#123

Post by ken »

asah wrote: post #95

Why the negativity? If google doesn't innovate in open web technologies, then closed systems will win, in this case Slack. Sure, bummer that they used the much-maligned "AMP" name and double-bummer that they didn't build a coalition among email client-writers first, incl Outlook. My assumption us that AMP4email will get replaced by a truly-open standard (aka multi-vendor support), following the same path as Google's…

> If google doesn't innovate in open web technologies, then closed systems will win

Besides the question of relevance (why do we care about web technologies in email, when studies have shown that most people prefer plain text, anyway?), this sounds like a straight up Appeal to Consequences.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#124

Post by jacksmith21006 »

yoz-y wrote: post #50
pmlnr wrote: post #4

I genuinely fear the future of email. Email is still the only piece of communication you can own, from top to bottom, from running the service to owning the domain[^1] it runs on. You were able to send anyone email, regardless of rank, location, social status. Google (and recently, Outlook) is taking all of it away. It's putting mail from people not on your contact list in spam[^3]; it's by default blaclisting IPs wi…

Google and Microsoft certainly did not help, but let's not forget that many of these features were made to combat spam which got more sophisticated over time. Having all mail delivered all the time, trusting everybody on the web and so on was fine when internet was for enthusiasts. In today's environment, however, plain old e-mail has insufficient protection and overly optimistic design.

Did not help? I am old and remember email before Google solved spam with Gmail. So they most certainly helped.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#125

Post by whyagaindavid »

hollerith wrote: post #87
whyagaindavid wrote: post #38

For all the criticism of Google/Gmail/AMP at least the spec is open. AMP allows me to browse with minimal data.

The spec for at least one MS-Word format is open, too, but that does not mean I would like for every email sent to me through gmail to be in that format. I interpret this announcement from Google as a sign that the default format for emails sent from gmail, which is now basically plain text (and HTML via MIME's multipart/alternative) will some day, when Google is ready, change to some complicated thing that requires…

But sadly that doc format cannot be opened reliably.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#126

Post by whyagaindavid »

tho9Ohx1eo wrote: post #59
whyagaindavid wrote: post #38

For all the criticism of Google/Gmail/AMP at least the spec is open. AMP allows me to browse with minimal data.

I guess not everyone is having tens on gigabytes for 5€ like me, but hell, even if the megabyte is more expensive than gold in some fucked up economy does that mean everyone should sell their soul to google and the likes?

1.Everyone need not sell their soul to Google but the majority did it 2. The same argument stands for Facebook. I wish there was a neutral platform but... 3. I wish someone like apple will take on AMP or search or cloud storage or cross-platform email but apple is interested in keeping people locked. Heck, I can't reliably find a client for pics, calendar except iOS or macos device...

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#127

Post by strict9 »

And this blog post is a brilliant metaphor for why I stopped clicking amp links a long time ago.

A much larger than necessary header that bounces up and down as you scroll, with a insanely massive related articles sticky footer.

AMP is a scourge on the web and now they want to extend the plague to email? Please Google, just leave email alone.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#128

Post by pmlnr »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #124
yoz-y wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Microsoft certainly did not help, but let's not forget that many of these features were made to combat spam which got more sophisticated over time. Having all mail delivered all the time, trusting everybody on the web and so on was fine when internet was for enthusiasts. In today's environment, however, plain old e-mail has insufficient protection and overly optimistic design.

Did not help? I am old and remember email before Google solved spam with Gmail. So they most certainly helped.

Google didn't "solve" spam at all, they are just playing rough. The jail sentences for spam network operators, the the shift to ddos/mining/etc of botnets, and user awareness, bitten by spam helped, but not solved. You probably used a crappy provider, with no feedback loop for spam before.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#130

Post by kuschku »

dingaling wrote: post #88
mseebach wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google/Microsoft didn't kill email, spam did. Google/Microsoft then salvaged from the abyss something largely similar to email, but with some limbs all but severed.

Spam put centralised commercial e-mail ( ISPs and web-mail ) into critical condition until the web-mail hosts reacted to save themselves. But as for the little folk who are less of a target: I have run my own mail server for 18 years and can't imagine I've received more than 100 spams in total. And that is without any defences other than SPF. ISP e-mail, well that is certainly spammed to death but probably for the be…

I usually receive between 5 and 40 spam mails per day (best and worst day of january 2017), manually sorted.

That's with SPF, DKIM, DMARC checks automatically rejecting emails. SpamAssassin and custom ML filters to presort.

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