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German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

reuters.com

311–320 of 404 posts

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#311
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Whenever you tag a friend in a photo you to help teach our computers to recognize what your friends face looks like" That's a good simple explanation IMO. If it sounds scary, maybe it is.

It's scary to some people but not others, so is the purpose of GDPR to spur a discussion on the scope of technology and privacy tradeoffs or to actively slow the pace of personal data collection? I think there has been a lack of reasonable and measured discussion about this issue, it's very polarized as with most things.

Just in looking at ambiguous and deceptive labeling in the grocery stores (US), I am seeing what seems like a loosening of ethical norms. I can't quantify it, but I am feeling like the ideology that regulations are always bad and the market can be trusted to maintain good quality products is giving people license to try anything that is technically legal to make incrementally more money. Despite the vast number of regulations that exist, I think people are identifying loopholes in both the law and human psychology at an ever increasing rate, and regulations that exist are inadequate.

This doesn't mean, of course, that more regulations can fix things, but I think the world is changing, possibly for the worse, while some people say we should remain calm and do nothing, because nothing unusual is happening.

Edit: I am not suggesting people are becoming less ethical than in the past "just because" - I'm suggesting information technology is letting smart people increasingly subvert norms about transparency, because once you can quantify the effect of your customers' cognitive biases, competition makes it imperative to exploit them. Even if you don't realize what you're doing, you do enough A/B testing and it's automatic, I should think.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

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post #282
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can probably get a lot less if you try to sell the data to non-EU entities compared to local ones though. Same for advertisement prices.

That raises some interesting questions. Let's say: • I run website W. W does not obey EU privacy and data rules, but I, my company, my server, etc., are all outside the EU in places without treaties that would allow enforcement of EU rules against me. • I sell data from EU citizens who visit W. I sell this data to ad network N that is also outside the EU. (I'm selling N all my visitor data, not just data from EU visi…

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Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

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post #246

That article doesn't summarize the ruling very well. Here's a short tl;dr of the actual ruling[0]: Part A: Privacy settings - Facebook tried to claim that it is only subject to Irish law. Court disagrees since Facebook operates in Germany, so local law applies. [side note: this kind of confusion is exactly why the GDPR is needed] - Law states that the imprint must be "easily" accessible. Court found this not to be th…

Great summary! > The court states that it is questionable whether a real name policy is at all legal, underlining the need for proper consent due to the significant consequences of volunteering one's real name. That represents an amazing win for online privacy. And seems totally at odds with core Facebook policy.

I agree with your agreement and I think it is absolutely paramount that the actual summary and facts of this ruling be shown completely in each and every instance it is posted, then re-posted, around the e-world.

This feels like the type of article that's going to wind up being click-bait-ified like mad around social media and such to demonize Facebook's privacy policy (as it should) and a non-US / European Country's (Germany) honest look and ruling on it but it feels like it will just be more water under the bridge if the average reader / Facebook user will be at all confused or slightly missing the point while reading it.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I wrote already in another comment: all these regulations will end up doing is strengthen the market position of the established players and cripple any competition from new incumbents :( It’s the end of an era...not too long ago anyone could compete with the big players...soon nobody will

given the feedback loop of social networks there wasn't much of a reason for viable competitors to emerge in the first place. The lack of competitors here is structural, not everything is an issue of 'we must remove the red tape!' That would do nothing because nobody is voluntarily going to switch away from an established social network monopolist. It's a nash equilibrium of sorts.

People keep saying that...yet FB succeeded with MySpace in the market.

Same with Instagram, WhatsApp and Snapchat.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#315

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It’s interesting...implementing these changes won’t hurt Facebook...but they will kill any competition from other (smaller) players. This ruling will in the end contribute to Facebooks long term success and will cement its market position.

It'd be very cool if they lost the real-name policy.

I don’t think that’s gonna be enforceable...there is good reason for having a real name policy

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

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post #281
post #18

Wait until GDPR is in place in May and German and other EU courts will rule FB to death. IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets.

I wonder. In my opinion more rules only means bigger hurdles for newcomers. The big companies might have a setback but will survive one way or another because they have the knowledge and money (lawyers, lobbyists) to adapt. A good example is the VAT law of Europe. No problem for big companies, but small companies struggle to comply (its a returning subject on HN). Or the net neutrality law in the US: it will become h…

Europe is too concerned wrestling with large US tech companies to understand that more regulations will only exacerbate the very thing they are trying to get away from.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

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post #304
post #299

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HIPAA (and PCI compliance) has done little to prevent 1) in practice, especially when balanced against the huge costs it has on industry and the 'hidden' cost of crippled innovation. You can't measure the true cost of hundreds of thousands of projects and startups that were never realized because HIPAA scared them away...and this is stuff that would have saved billions in healthcare costs, improved the public's healt…

I hear you that it makes things more difficult, but I think it's hard to overstate how terrible & uninterested conservative revenue stream businesses (e.g. insurance, utilities) are at keeping up with IT trends. Based on what I saw in a couple of the top 5 largest insurance companies, these are IT departments that would be storing personal data in databases open to every employee of the organization, were there not a…

Sure, but the other side of the equation is an unknowable number of thousands of lost lives and billions of dollars, because of medical advances that were never made.

There are other important values than privacy in the world!

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#318

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The GDPR is beautiful and an example of the best outcomes democracy can produce. The winners are pretty much everyone. It's sad that the US can't implement public policy like this.

We'll have to wait a while before we know for sure, but one loser might be technology startups, especially European ones. As much talk as there has been about the effects of GDPR on huge companies, the fact is, they're not too concerned: they have enough lawyers to throw at the legal issues and enough engineers to throw at the technical issues. Smaller companies without these resources are going to see their lives ge…

> We'll have to wait a while before we know for sure, but one loser might be technology startups, especially European ones.

Or it may be a great opportunity for them to differentiate developing not privacy invading business models protected from being undercut by "free" (because we sell your data) competitors.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#319
post #253

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Parent claims that Facebook will not "ever be compliant" and "in the worst case the withdraw from these markets".

the whole EU? Too big to withdraw from.

They got out of China which is also quite big. I just wonder what would replace it if they withdraw.

Re: German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be very cool if they lost the real-name policy.

I don’t think that’s gonna be enforceable...there is good reason for having a real name policy

Do you mean to say German law won't be enforceable in Germany? You try.
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