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America's misguided culture of overwork

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Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#121

Post by varjag »

Hagelin wrote: post #112
rick888 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

I also find it really funny because Sweden, Denmark, and Finland are not only very homogeneous, but very racist. It's very difficult to go against what is considered "normal" (IE: groupthink). Oh, lovely, we’re very racist, are we? Compared to what, USA? I hear the same anti-muslim, anti-mosque rants from Americans that I hear from fellow Swedes. You complain about illegal immigrants, we complain Eastern-Europeans, ”…

They don't really, as Sweden alone has taken e.g. more Iraqi refugees than the USA.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#122

Post by rick888 »

bad_user wrote: post #103
rick888 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food in the US. And what makes people eat crappy food in the US? Could it be that crappy food is sold starting from the school's cafeteria? Could it be that people don't have enough time to cook or eat at better restaurants? This to me just means that in those other countries, the government is re-distributing wealth It could also mean any nu…

"And what makes people eat crappy food in the US?

Could it be that crappy food is sold starting from the school's cafeteria? Could it be that people don't have enough time to cook or eat at better restaurants?"

Crappy school food does need to be changed. If people "don't have enough time" to cook or eat better, it's because they are lazy. You need to make time for these things.

"It could also mean any number of things ... like a middle-class that is better represented, or that the distribution of wealth is more efficient."

Either way, it's not something I want.

"Oh, the freedom argument :)

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but it seems to me that you've got no idea of how Consumerism works."

I do know how consumerism works. I also know the alternative is having the government make those choices for me.

"When you're sunken in debt, how much freedom do you have left?"

I have tons of freedom, because I am responsible with my money (IE: no debt). The people "sunken" in debt got that way because they spent money they didn't have and were foolish enough to do it on a credit card with huge APR.

There were many people during the housing crises that knowingly got a mortgage they couldn't afford because "the banks let them do it". When those same people couldn't pay their bills, they blamed those same banks. This is pure stupidity.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#123

Post by varjag »

gyardley wrote: post #61
arethuza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is an interesting example - one of the highest per capita GDP figures but unusual in that the distribution of incomes is very narrow e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspon...

Norway is a very lovely country but I doubt there's a sustainable model there for the rest of the world to follow, since we all can't become the world's third-largest exporter of oil.

Oil production accounted for about 50% of Norway's GDP in 2002. Just saying that it's not only oil.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#124

Post by lefstathiou »

I've always found these America vs Europe comparisons to to be rather poor. We're so much bigger and more diverse and our problems are on such a larger scale that its hard for me to rationalize we are still talking apples to apples. I cant help but laugh when i see these "quality of life" indexes that compare Norway, one of the most xenophobic/racist/elitist nations with a population half that of Manhattan, to the US.

While it's easy to point out how much nicer life is in Europe, i worry that people forget how much of that lifestyle is fueled by American growth/consumption. In Greece we have an expression, when America sneezes, the world catches a cold. If America slows down, the European lifestyle, which is already in decline given its unsustainability, is going to completely disappear.

To me, an unsustainable system of life/rule/govt etc is bad by definition, regardless of whether or not it works "for now". European companies are falling behind their American counterparts in many of the next generation industries. The Chinese are lining up to trounce them further. It's going to get really bad unless they make some serious changes.

Just my perspective, not that it's worth much.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#125

Post by rick888 »

nanairo wrote: post #107
rick888 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

Excuse me but where did that "ignorance is bliss" come from? The poster asked for some information, I tried to provide it. Did I belittled American's achievements? No. Did I provide wrong data? No. So maybe I am not being ignorant as just naive. There was very little opinion in my comment. Anyway... Life expectancy may be low because people eat crappy food, but the eat crappy food because they are cheap. Sure it cost…

"Excuse me but where did that "ignorance is bliss" come from?"

People that don't have freedom and are stuck in one system don't know what they are missing.

"But the number of people that can afford those in the USA is so small that when you look at the average, most are worse off."

The majority of people (last I heard it was > 70%) have some form of health care in the US. Our health care system does need to be reformed, but to say the majority of the population has no health care is just wrong.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#126

Post by maxawaytoolong »

gyardley wrote: post #72
arethuza wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Norway is interesting because they have such a narrow distribution of wealth even though they have vast riches from oil, not because of those riches. Edit: The Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund apparently owns 1% of global equities! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norw...

Well, if I remember correctly (I'm no expert on recent Norwegian history), Norway had a tradition of social democracy for a couple of decades before it discovered its oil reserves. I suspect they also had a high degree of income equality, even back then. I'm only arguing that today their social democracy continues to do well - and isn't under the same pressure of other European states' - because of their wealth.

Norway was also one of, if not the poorest country in Europe until the oil boom. They did indeed have a high degree of income equality - nobody had any money. Culturally, this, along with the harsh environment meant that Norwegians already had learned to live collectively and save whatever they had.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#127

Post by rick888 »

Hagelin wrote: post #112
rick888 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

I also find it really funny because Sweden, Denmark, and Finland are not only very homogeneous, but very racist. It's very difficult to go against what is considered "normal" (IE: groupthink). Oh, lovely, we’re very racist, are we? Compared to what, USA? I hear the same anti-muslim, anti-mosque rants from Americans that I hear from fellow Swedes. You complain about illegal immigrants, we complain Eastern-Europeans, ”…

"Oh, lovely, we’re very racist, are we? Compared to what, USA? I hear the same anti-muslim, anti-mosque rants from Americans that I hear from fellow Swedes"

FYI: muslin isn't a race.

"You complain about illegal immigrants, we complain Eastern-Europeans, ”They’re here to take our jobs”. We complain about paying for refugees and asylum-seekers, you complain about... I don’t know, do you have that issue?"

I'm glad we agree that it's not the paradise that so leftists claim it to be.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#128

Post by linuxhansl »

A German here living in the US for about 10 years...

I found that I my line of work (software engineering), this is not generally true. I used to work more daily hours when I was still in Germany, and there was a culture of "You have to be in the office, otherwise we cannot verify that you are actually working".

Here I work from home when I like, work odd hours, work few hours (as long as I work focused during the hours I do work), and I am generally trusted to get my work done.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#129

Post by yummyfajitas »

davidw wrote: post #118
yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the wikipedia page, all they do is compare spending (in $) to life expectancy. This is a terrible comparison, since lots of non-health care factors affect life expectancy. For example, life expectancy within the US is 85 for Asians, 78 for whites and 72 for blacks. Life expectancy in Japan is 83. Hypothesis: ethnicity plays a strong role in determining life expectancy. The fact that Japan is 99.4% Asian while the…

Like many things in economics, it's imperfect. If you compare the US with Canada, which has a similar mixed ethnicity, the dollars to life expectancy is still way better in Canada. To save some time, I think the typical libertarian argument is to admit the system in the US actually does stink in terms of costs, and argue that if only we had a truly free market, where people could instruct their ambulance drivers to d…

If you compare the US with Canada, which has a similar mixed ethnicity,...

False. Canada has more long lived Asians and far fewer short lived Blacks (and "some other race") than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat...

In any case, I'm not asserting that ethnicity is the only factor affecting life expectancy. My claim is that many factors affect life expectancy and health care is way down the list in terms of magnitude (once you reach first world levels). Thus, using life expectancy as a proxy for health care is simply a terrible idea.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#130

Post by Hagelin »

rick888 wrote: post #127
Hagelin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find it really funny because Sweden, Denmark, and Finland are not only very homogeneous, but very racist. It's very difficult to go against what is considered "normal" (IE: groupthink). Oh, lovely, we’re very racist, are we? Compared to what, USA? I hear the same anti-muslim, anti-mosque rants from Americans that I hear from fellow Swedes. You complain about illegal immigrants, we complain Eastern-Europeans, ”…

"Oh, lovely, we’re very racist, are we? Compared to what, USA? I hear the same anti-muslim, anti-mosque rants from Americans that I hear from fellow Swedes" FYI: muslin isn't a race. "You complain about illegal immigrants, we complain Eastern-Europeans, ”They’re here to take our jobs”. We complain about paying for refugees and asylum-seekers, you complain about... I don’t know, do you have that issue?" I'm glad we ag…

FYI: muslin isn't a race.

Oh, I know, it’s a fabric.

I'm glad we agree that it's not the paradise that so leftists claim it to be.

So you really didn’t have a point, did you? Just wanted to blurt out a few insults?

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