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America's misguided culture of overwork

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Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#101

Post by bpyne »

Loic wrote: post #35
dsplittgerber wrote: post #10

This guy has lots of facts wrong - makes you wonder about his accuracy in research: - no federally mandated six weeks of vacation time (though 4-5 weeks are the norm, even in private sector) - University tuition has been introduced recently (though still low, but will rise as obvious source of gov revenue) - Free nursing care / child care for a small percentage of toddlers only - No labor minister of that name (he is…

Vacations norm is more 5 to 6 weeks with 38h to 41h work week. That is, for all the people I know in Germany. (I know nobody with only 4 weeks). Please note that these are paid holidays, you have a lot of days off too (Christmas, etc.) The University tuition is about €500/year. Nursing/Day care for the kids (we have 3.5 and 1.5 year old kids) is from free to €200/€500 per month for both of them (it depends of your in…

I'm employed at a university in the US and have what we consider a "cushy" job: i.e. good benefits and a short work week. Just for comparison, here's what my employer offers.

vacation = 2 weeks

personal time = 6 days (sick time is considered personal time)

holidays = 7

We have also time off that I don't know how to categorize. It's specific to universities.

university shutdown between Christmas and New Year's = 7 days

Memorial Day until Labor Day we leave at 1pm on Friday, assuming no critical work needs to be completed.

University tuition ranges and often includes housing, which is necessary in less urban areas. $1000/class would be on the low end.

Day care for our 4.5 year old is about $250/week.

My work week is 40 hours but we're strongly encouraged to take a 1 hour lunch. However, with the exception of one other person in my social circle, everyone else works 45+ hours weekly.

EDIT: Applied line breaks again.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#102

Post by yummyfajitas »

nanairo wrote: post #80
yummyfajitas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go educate yourself, the average Western-European citizen has more luxury, more free time, and better health-care than the average citizen of the United States (I know, I have visited the US often). Help me educate myself. Provide some evidence.

(I am not the original poster, but I thought I'd provide some info). As he pointed out it's difficult to find objective data. But you can check: * Human Development Index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... ): the USA is at position 13. It includes things like life expectancy and education. * Satisfaction with Life index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index ):the U…

Only one of those measures is even remotely related to the factors I asked for data on (working hours, health care or luxuries), namely the WHO rankings of health care. Unfortunately, the WHO rankings of health care are not actually rankings of health care. They rank a weighted average of health (25%), health inequality (25%), responsiveness (12.5%), responsiveness inequality (12.5%), and financial inequality (25%).

Go read the actual report: http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf

Only 37.5% of the ranking is even peripherally related to health care, namely health outcomes (measured by DALE, Disability Adjusted Life Expectancy) and responsiveness (how satisfied patients are). The US is #1 in responsiveness and #24 in DALE (4.5 years behind Japan at #1 and 0.5 years behind Germany at #22).

It's unclear how significant the gap in DALE is, since lifestyle and genetics strongly affect DALE. Fun fact: life expectancy for Japanese Americans is higher than for Japanese (84.5 in the US [1], 82.6 in Japan). Within the US, life expectancy varies from 44 (Lakota Men) to 86 (Chinese American Women), a gap of 42 years.

To actually rank health care, one would need to measure medical outcomes for specific medical diagnoses, adjusted for patient quality. E.g., it would need to answer questions like "given a group of non-overweight white males aged 45-55 with prostate cancer, how many survive at least 5 years?".

[1] http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/browse.aspx?lvl=2&#3...

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#103

Post by bad_user »

rick888 wrote: post #95
nanairo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I am not the original poster, but I thought I'd provide some info). As he pointed out it's difficult to find objective data. But you can check: * Human Development Index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... ): the USA is at position 13. It includes things like life expectancy and education. * Satisfaction with Life index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index ):the U…

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

     Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat 
     crappy food in the US.
And what makes people eat crappy food in the US?

Could it be that crappy food is sold starting from the school's cafeteria? Could it be that people don't have enough time to cook or eat at better restaurants?

     This to me just means that in those other countries, the government is 
     re-distributing wealth
It could also mean any number of things ... like a middle-class that is better represented, or that the distribution of wealth is more efficient.

     I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the 
     government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that 
     make it really difficult to have a successful business.
     ....
     Would you rather be happier or have less freedoms?
Oh, the freedom argument :)

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but it seems to me that you've got no idea of how Consumerism works.

When you're sunken in debt, how much freedom do you have left?

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#104

Post by marconaut »

rick888 wrote: post #95
nanairo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I am not the original poster, but I thought I'd provide some info). As he pointed out it's difficult to find objective data. But you can check: * Human Development Index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... ): the USA is at position 13. It includes things like life expectancy and education. * Satisfaction with Life index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index ):the U…

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

Speaking of ignorance, it's quite obvious that you've never lived in Europe and get your information from Fox News. Try traveling sometime.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#106

Post by nihilocrat »

d_c wrote: post #5

"free university tuition" -> Not true anymore, it's more like 300-600 Euros per semester. Still not much compared to the US but enough for german students to protest and public banks to create state-sponsored student loans. This type of loan for students was unknown before in Germany.

(As an American) the first time I heard about people not going to university in Germany because they couldn't afford it I pretty much gave up all hope for humanity. Some people just don't know how lucky they are.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#107

Post by nanairo »

rick888 wrote: post #95
nanairo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I am not the original poster, but I thought I'd provide some info). As he pointed out it's difficult to find objective data. But you can check: * Human Development Index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... ): the USA is at position 13. It includes things like life expectancy and education. * Satisfaction with Life index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index ):the U…

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

Excuse me but where did that "ignorance is bliss" come from? The poster asked for some information, I tried to provide it. Did I belittled American's achievements? No. Did I provide wrong data? No. So maybe I am not being ignorant as just naive. There was very little opinion in my comment. Anyway...

Life expectancy may be low because people eat crappy food, but the eat crappy food because they are cheap. Sure it costs money for countries in the EU to push people towards better diet and you may object to that as a socialist government. But why should health care be only measured in terms of cures rather than prevention? I'd say both are important.

Second point. I perfectly agree with you, on the Gini coefficient and on other point. In EU countries there is a smaller gap. If you look at averages (what the original poster was talking about) the very skewed American distribution matters.

The USA has an excellent health care... if you can pay for it. It has an excellent education system... if you can pay for it. You can take plenty of holidays... if you don't need the extra money. And so on.

But the number of people that can afford those in the USA is so small that when you look at the average, most are worse off.

Do you not want to have wealth redistribution? Fine, don't. I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me. At your election vote whatever you prefer. But the article linked here was suggesting a different view of what may be a better balance. You like your way of living: suit yourself. shrug

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#109

Post by Destruct1 »

Whenever a recession hits a country everbody doubts their system. They look for other countries which are growing at the moment and try to emulate their success.

I still remember the time when the japanese were strong and everybody (europeans and americans) tried to become japanese, use their culture and work ethic.

In a decade or two, the american will forget the recession and wonder about wierd articles like this one.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#110

Post by microtonal »

rick888 wrote: post #95
nanairo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I am not the original poster, but I thought I'd provide some info). As he pointed out it's difficult to find objective data. But you can check: * Human Development Index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... ): the USA is at position 13. It includes things like life expectancy and education. * Satisfaction with Life index ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index ):the U…

Ignorance is bliss. I would rather have the chance of making it big (or fail) than have the government take most of it away with huge taxes and strict rules that make it really difficult to have a successful business. "It includes things like life expectancy and education." Life expectancy is low because of the vast amount of people that eat crappy food (and don't exercise) in the US. I don't think this is going to c…

"Would you rather be happier or have less freedoms?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Press_Freedom_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#2008_rankings

The US does better in economic freedom indices, not surprisingly, since there is much more market regulation in the EU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom_histo...

What do you prefer, freedom of speech and democracy, or economic freedom?

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