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Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

thinkfaster.co

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Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#21

Post by who_is_firing »

I am a bootcamp grad with several years of experience now. I agree with the article that the two of the weakest areas for bootcamp grads are data structures and algorithms.

However, my advice would be to interview at places that have focus less on these areas instead of taking coursework. At the end of the day if you are bootcamp grad you are probably not in the financial situation to take extra coursework. It's better to lower your standards a bit to get your first job and then pick up these skills on the job.

You will still have to grind out algorithm prep by using sites like Leetcode and Cracking the Coding Interview, but it's probably a better idea to focus on companies that focus less on this area.

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#22

Post by egoid2 »

matty22 wrote: post #15

The advice to include online MOOC courses on your CV runs counter to every piece of advice I've ever received in regards to putting online courses on a CV. I've always been told that that is seen as a red flag and that you might get docked 'points' for having something like that on a resume.

Does anyone have more opinions on this?

I'm a coding boot camp dev with a few years of experience at startups and half of my resume consists of online MOOCS (Udacity's machine learning, Udacity's Linear Algebra, Fast.ai's deep learning, and Cloud Academy's Certified AWS Developer)

I'm curious as to what HR from Big Tech companies and small startups think about a resume filled with MOOCs like this.

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#23

Post by who_is_firing »

DataWorker wrote: post #19

Coders who don’t have enough statistical expertise is a problem why? I understand the importance of O notation, but didn’t know that stats/probability was important for things like web design and other coding jobs. Can someone help me understand this part?

I think the basics of it (i.e. recognizing n vs n^2 vs exponential) is important for back end developers. After a few years of doing back end I've definitely had to have awareness in how I design things like my loops to optimize.

It's not a biggie for most companies, but you should have a general awareness. Unlike the author of the article, though, I do believe you can learn this on the job. Also, you don't have to necessarily know the big 0 notation, it's a good idea to write a load test which will give you a more relevant stat anyways. But sometimes its good to recognize "Oh I don't need a 2nd inner loop that will change this to O(n^2)".

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#24

Post by swimorsinka »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #11

This article treads lightly around calling bootcamp grads inferior on average, when actually, very little is standing between the company itself turning the bootcamp grads into the engineers that they want. After all, you already have ample evidence someone can learn software development concepts on a compressed timeline compared to college, surely another week or so covering time/space complexity and data structures…

Author here: I don't believe anyone is inherently inferior. Given the same amount of time invested, I think everyone has a shot at performing well.

But a computer science graduate typically has 4 years under his or her belt in an engineering heavy curriculum, and because of that time invested, they seem to be stronger in problem solving.

We use Big-O as a signal for problem solving ability. Whether or not that signal is problematic is another question - you could argue that it is.

So yes, I would say that someone who has invested 4 years into problem solving is going to have an advantage over someone who has only put in 6 months, even if those 6 months are dedicated.

But the bootcamp graduate could equal the C.S. graduate with a little more investment.

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#25

Post by mpblampo »

egoid2 wrote: post #22
matty22 wrote: post #15

The advice to include online MOOC courses on your CV runs counter to every piece of advice I've ever received in regards to putting online courses on a CV. I've always been told that that is seen as a red flag and that you might get docked 'points' for having something like that on a resume.

Does anyone have more opinions on this? I'm a coding boot camp dev with a few years of experience at startups and half of my resume consists of online MOOCS (Udacity's machine learning, Udacity's Linear Algebra, Fast.ai's deep learning, and Cloud Academy's Certified AWS Developer) I'm curious as to what HR from Big Tech companies and small startups think about a resume filled with MOOCs like this.

I don't hire engineers, but I am one. I've never heard this advice about not putting MOOCs on your resume, and if I were hiring, I would likely consider any MOOC (with a decent grade if applicable) to be better than nothing. Can the OP of the comment say more about the reasoning?

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#26

Post by xapata »

DataWorker wrote: post #19

Coders who don’t have enough statistical expertise is a problem why? I understand the importance of O notation, but didn’t know that stats/probability was important for things like web design and other coding jobs. Can someone help me understand this part?

If you can't understand the results of a design experiment, that makes your web dev job harder.

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#27

Post by wccrawford »

My advice for them?

Don't tell people you paid for a coding bootcamp.

Without fail, every single "code bootcamp" that has applied for a job here has had a horrible resume. They didn't have anything on their resume that wasn't from the bootcamp, and even that was horrible.

And they generally failed our "use Flickr's API to get some images" test that we give out. Miserably.

I think we ended up interviewing 1 of them, out of dozens, and they just weren't worth trying out.

So now, when I see that on a resume, I groan. I still go look at whatever's on their Github, but I'm already primed to fail them. They would have been better off having nothing on the resume and anything in their portfolio.

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#28

Post by dglass »

Slightly off topic, but I'm working on putting together a newsletter aimed at career advice for junior software engineers and bootcamp graduates. It will focus more on the soft skills side of engineering. I've gained enough experience in my career where I feel I can offer advice for career advancement for people just starting out their careers. It's something I never had when I first started and I haven't been able to find a lot of solid advice more than a blog post here and there.

If you're interested you can take a look at the first post and subscribe if you think it would he helpful. https://exponentialbackoff.substack.com/

Re: Advice for Coding Bootcamp Graduates

#30

Post by FLUX-YOU »

swimorsinka wrote: post #24
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #11

This article treads lightly around calling bootcamp grads inferior on average, when actually, very little is standing between the company itself turning the bootcamp grads into the engineers that they want. After all, you already have ample evidence someone can learn software development concepts on a compressed timeline compared to college, surely another week or so covering time/space complexity and data structures…

Author here: I don't believe anyone is inherently inferior. Given the same amount of time invested, I think everyone has a shot at performing well. But a computer science graduate typically has 4 years under his or her belt in an engineering heavy curriculum, and because of that time invested, they seem to be stronger in problem solving. We use Big-O as a signal for problem solving ability. Whether or not that signal…

But why don't you hire them, make that little investment yourself, and have them fix things they're capable of fixing while they catch up?

This just seems like such a small obstacle that the technical parts would end up taking a back seat to other hiring criteria.

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