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The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

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Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#51

Post by dang »

pbiggar wrote: post #17
malchow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read of the study is that it more or less proves the opposite: the wage gap is the result of women having such powerfully different preferences that it shows up even when we know discrimination is impossible.

You are letting my point sail over you. How do women come to those "powerfully different preferences"? Do we think that all women got together and decided to only drive at less valuable times? Or is it more likely that there are systemic/societal reasons why women as a group pick less-valuable times to drive?

> You are letting my point sail over you.

Please edit such swipes out of your comments here. Besides crossing into incivility, they add no information and make divisive topics even more divisive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#52

Post by throwaway1748 »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #33
prepend wrote: post #2

This is interesting. What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? With the reasons in the paper, should this gap be corrected (eg, force maximum speed, pay higher for slow drivers but only gender specific, etc etc).

Better protections for female drivers that make them less likely stop driving for Uber. For example having an option to favor Women or only pickup women, or only pickup women and men with a high rating, etc so that they can feel more safe driving for Uber. If a female Uber driver has controls that allow her to stay out driving longer than she would normally be comfortable with, she can generate higher earnings and cl…

Yes, but men are statistically more likely than women to be the victim of violence. Male drivers are taking on just as much, if not more of a safety risk driving for Uber, why should special accommodation be made for women?

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#53

Post by omarforgotpwd »

throwaway1748 wrote: post #52
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better protections for female drivers that make them less likely stop driving for Uber. For example having an option to favor Women or only pickup women, or only pickup women and men with a high rating, etc so that they can feel more safe driving for Uber. If a female Uber driver has controls that allow her to stay out driving longer than she would normally be comfortable with, she can generate higher earnings and cl…

Yes, but men are statistically more likely than women to be the victim of violence. Male drivers are taking on just as much, if not more of a safety risk driving for Uber, why should special accommodation be made for women?

Because the men are not as bothered by the risk as women and continue driving for Uber whereas women drivers do not.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#54

Post by konschubert »

KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #42
mlevental wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what exactly are you implying? is it that it'll correct itself naturally (free market forces) or that it doesn't need to be corrected?

The free market already has one solution for this, imperfect as it may be. If an individual is the victim of criminal discrimination, they can seek legal council and determine if the case is prosecutable. I understand that this may not be economically viable for many; perhaps a collective focus on helping struggling individuals would help bolster support. A one-size-fits-all approach to equalising the playing field i…

A legal system is a form of regulation. Let's not let the "free market" claim credit for that.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#55

Post by mlevental »

T2_t2 wrote: post #46
mlevental wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these two things are in such direct contradiction >systematic influences can easily cause such an effect >how this just goes to show that it's really the SYSTEM that's biased that i have no idea what you're really trying to say. > Non-malicious no one cares if it's malicious or benign. ask a black person whether they care about the intentions of those they're being racially profiled by (for example). it doesn't matte…

This is either some next level trolling, or really odd. > The entire point of the paper is to show that you can observe a statistical anomaly like wage disparity whenever you compare two different populations, even when you essentially control for job effectiveness and isolate out any influence from malicious discrimination.

>statistical anomaly

>systematic influences

>bias in the results

>SYSTEM that's biased

you really don't see that who i'm responding to isn't at all consistent in what they're trying to say? the first 3 aren't mutually consistent and the fourth makes no sense when contextualized against those prior inconsistencies.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#56

Post by KhanMahGretsch »

konschubert wrote: post #54
KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market already has one solution for this, imperfect as it may be. If an individual is the victim of criminal discrimination, they can seek legal council and determine if the case is prosecutable. I understand that this may not be economically viable for many; perhaps a collective focus on helping struggling individuals would help bolster support. A one-size-fits-all approach to equalising the playing field i…

A legal system is a form of regulation. Let's not let the "free market" claim credit for that.

I'm referring to the legal system that enforces constitutional rights, which is a far-cry from the government imposing restrictions on voluntary transactions among private citizens. Laws that enforce your inalienable human rights to not be physically harmed or robbed, to be left alone, are always a good thing.

The free market provides us with legal professionals (though the must be credentialed) who may be hired to fight a case with the best-interests of their client at heart. Depending on your jurisdiction, it may also allow for collective funding of individual legal cases.

I am of the opinion that pursuing real-life cases of legitimate criminal discrimination, and allowing virtuous ideas to win a marketplace of ideas, is the superior path to fairness and freedom for us all. This is direct opposition to the intersectional-collectivism that focusses on the aggregate-experience of an entire population and suggest solutions that are framed in this false paradigm.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#57

Post by danjoc »

T2_t2 wrote: post #48
danjoc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An hour in the car is an hour in the car. It's the same amount of time. I'm not saying that women spend more hours in the car than men. Don't be deliberately obtuse. According to the paper, 50% of the wage gap is due to driving speed alone. The conclusion is that men are speeding more frequently than women. To level the playing field, all speeders could be auto reported to the proper authorities. Or, you know, just p…

That's... not what it says dude. > The conclusion is that men are speeding more frequently than women. Prove it! I'm not American, but I am pretty sure that the average speed of 19.532 mph for men and 18.760 for women makes speeding an unlikely explanation without some evidence I just can't see. Can you point me to where breaking laws is the explanation?

>Prove it! I'm not American

LOL

You just discredited yourself. Everybody speeds in the US. To the point that obeying the speed limit can be quite dangerous in some cases.

Therefore, both men and women are speeding, but men are taking greater risks, speeding more. That's a problem, because a small increase in speed produces a large increase in kinetic energy. It's velocity squared:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

The men are profiting by having a greater willingness to put their passengers and other drivers on the road in fatal danger. They are all breaking the law, but the men are more brazen about it.

Uber should solve this, because it is a serious problem. If you only look at the payment aspect, that is demonstrably easy to solve. Pay women more. Very easy.

If you want to solve the root problem, and not a symptom of the problem, then Uber needs to tackle the problem of drivers speeding. Automatic reporting of speeders is one approach. Another is to remove drivers from the pool of available drivers for any ill gotten time they gained by breaking the law. Save one minute with your fare because you drove 80MPH in a 70MPH zone on the freeway? Then make the driver invisible in app for one minute (or more) after dropping off the fare. There should be some cost imposed for breaking the law proportional to how fast the driver was going.

Frankly, society has a cost assigned to this already. They're called speeding tickets, and I see Uber drivers who should get them regularly.

What will Uber do when they switch to autonomous cars? Make the robots speed too? Given their willingness to break the law so brazenly as a company, I would not be surprised if this is what they do.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#59

Post by mlevental »

pixel_fcker wrote: post #47
mlevental wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you think it doesn't need to be corrected? you don't see how an equitable distribution of resources between the sexes is much more productive for the whole? nm the morality of it.

I believe strongly in an equal distribution of opportunity between the sexes. How would you propose fixing the gap that the paper describes? Simply paying women drivers 7% more? Would that be fair?

resources should be allocated to correct for this

>The second factor is work experience. Even in the relatively simple production of a passenger’s ride, past experience is valuable for drivers.

i.e. women should be given training to compensate for the a priori difference in experience.

women should also be educated about this

>hourly earnings on Uber vary predictably by location and time of week, and men tend to drive in more lucrative locations.

the obvious question becomes why aren't women driving during more lucrative times. is it because those times are late nights during which it's potentially more dangerous for a woman driver. this is of course a systemic issue of a larger system. my point is that usually when someone claims "accidental/benign inequality" all one needs to do is expand the scope to discover the malignant root.

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