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Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

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Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seriously, who are you to tell me how to run my family life? Your arrogance is astonishing. The point of worker rights is to provide equal footing for everyone. Your boss would certainly like it if there were no mandatory holidays/PTO... > Now we have to force men to not work because some people might get get their feelings hurt? Fuck them. No, but in order to provide equal chances for the kids' development in earl…

>come over to Europe >Our people are happier and more productive. The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. Europe as a whole ranks between 42 and 43[0] The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_Wo... [1] https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/…

> The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries.

The top 6 in said index is occupied by European countries - and all 8 European countries ranked before the US in said index are routinely bashed in the US as being prime examples of "socialist" hellholes.

> The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1]

Well, it's not that hard to beat European countries if you're working 300 hours per year more than them... and the core question is: how much of the US "productivity" originates from the scamming going on at Wall Street, i.e. it has no meaningful human labor associated by which this "profit" was created?

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#132
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The measure of life is happiness. For many this involves parenting (probably, one imagines, biology drives this, no?). Some people will choose to be stay-at-home parents. There is nothing wrong with that. That is a career. The household income... is the household income, not the wage earner's, because for a couple with children the family is their life project, and the stay-at-home parent's "service" is "paid for" by…

People take stock of their lives in many different ways: using happiness as the unit of measurement is called hedonism. Pursuing hedonism is a defensible position to take but I'm alarmed by its rise as the default system of value in the educated/cosmopolitan world that most HN readers presumably inhabit. Things like raising children well, championing unfashionable but important positions, fighting injustice and pover…

Are you saying one cannot take pleasure in / derive happiness from things like raising children well??

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>come over to Europe >Our people are happier and more productive. The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. Europe as a whole ranks between 42 and 43[0] The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_Wo... [1] https://www.expertmarket.co.uk/…

> The US ranks 14th in happiness ahead of the majority of European countries. The top 6 in said index is occupied by European countries - and all 8 European countries ranked before the US in said index are routinely bashed in the US as being prime examples of "socialist" hellholes. > The US ranks 6th in productivity, again ahead of the vast majority of European countries and far ahead of the European average[1] Well,…

>The top 6 in said index is occupied by European countries - and all 8 European countries ranked before the US in said index are routinely bashed in the US as being prime examples of "socialist" hellholes.

The comment didn't say "these select 8 European countries that are a mere fraction of the overall European population", it said "Europe" which last I checked was a continent encompassing dozens of countries with hundreds of millions of people, the vast majority of which are below the US in the ranking. If the comment was meant to be restricted to a very small subset of Europe then it should have reflected that in the wording. To which I can easily select a small subset of US states that would still outrank those countries. Without getting overly specific, do you really think you are happier than the average person living in Hawaii? Really? Really?? As far as your second "point", I didn't say anything about socialist hellholes so you're straw manning me. Also FWIW, none of those countries are actually socialist so if you're asserting that, you're again, flat wrong.

>Well, it's not that hard to beat European countries if you're working 300 hours per year more than them...

So the statement that "Europe" was more productive than the US was wrong. Yes, that is what I said. As an aside to your other point, according to my research, Germans work the least of anybody and rank lower in happiness than the US. Not to mention the western European countries like Portugal and Ireland that actually work more hours than Americans. I don't see you mentioning that but then that would be inconvenient to your narrative..

> and the core question is: how much of the US "productivity" originates from the scamming going on at Wall Street, i.e. it has no meaningful human labor associated by which this "profit" was created?

Those weren't questions I responded to but erroneous statements. But on with the goalpost moving. I love this one. Within a few seconds you say we work 300 hours a year more thus the obviously superior productivity (which is a bit disingenuous since we are more productive per hour and many countries outwork us in total hours) then you follow up with it's all a scam cuz "Wall Street". So which is it and does it hurt talking out of both sides of your mouth like that? Basically you don't want to be enlightened and correct your errors. You want to argue and bully your way into being right no matter what. Of course, just between you and me, what you really want to do is bash the US and feel oh so superior which is just sad and pathetic. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Europe is overall less productive and less happy than the US. Period. The denial of this fact is precisely what I responded to. Choose a small subset of the continent and I can play that game too. Funny how you like to make your assertions as if they are fact when it's just a bunch of received internet wisdom that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Just for fun, in the CIA world fact book, I looked up Liechtenstein which has the highest productivity per capita in not just Europe but the entire world and the District of Columbia which has the highest per capita productivity in America. Both are about the same size at 60 something square miles. I'll leave it to your imagination which has the higher stats. You guys think you are so much better than everybody else. You're wrong.

I apologize for not including links this time but why bother when you'll just try to move your intellectually dishonest goalposts again necessitating further refutation. Not that I'll bother. You were wrong then and you're wrong now. You base your new assertions on mutually exclusive statements that you wrote within 30 seconds of each other. You are laughable and not worth arguing with so go ahead and entertain other readers with your whining about how much """better""" you wish you were. I'm ignoring you since I have more "productive" things to do. Ha!

edit: I just happened to glance at the tag line in your profile and realized I've been sucked in to wasting 20 minutes debating an angsty teen.

Re: Even in Denmark, children are career killers for working moms

#134
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not guilt tripping. I am programmer. The flexible work is seen as a right and company that does not provide it as overly controlling and bad place for work - that is quite universal in both real life and online. And it is not just that, occasional work from home is also seen as basic perk you totally expect. And my colleges are using that right - and that is not blame, just a statement of fact. The fact is, m…

Do you have any experience with this? I have a father in law that has been together with a nurse manager for many years now, and she is the reason for the argument. Mothers of young children ask for less hours, less crappy shifts, and ability to take days off work with sick children. And they get it. But regardless, those kind jobs are unionized here and the pay is not something you negotiate. Not for women, or men.…

I can work full hours and more precisely because flexible hours help a lot to deal with kids needed something. If I had fixed shifts, either I or husband would have to have less hours or someone would have to help us occasionally.

Same with sick kids. When you can work from home or remote (my company does not allow much of it, husbands does a lot of it and people use it) then you do not need free time because kids are sick. You work from home or in evening.

There is no trade off between pay, perks and flexible time. People who get high salaries get perks too. Same with flexible time.

If flexibility was motivation when choosing jobs, women and men would choose completely different jobs to begin with.

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