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3D Color Print

www8.hp.com

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Re: 3D Color Print

#121

Post by TeMPOraL »

digi_owl wrote: post #91
gh02t wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit depressing too, considering what the HP brand used to be. They used to be synonymous with the some of the most cutting-edge, best engineered test equipment and other electronics gear you could buy. Gear from that era like the legendary HP3458 multimeter still commands very high prices on the used market ($5000 or more if calibrated). Really that part of HP still exists at that level of quality, but they sp…

Funny thing is that said HP still exist. What people are complaining about is the bottom of the barrel consumer products hawked out of very storefront the world over. I have seen similar sentiments aimed towards Acer, yet i have seen Acer business market laptops survive for ages. Basically companies like HP and Acer have multiple product ranges with different QA protocols and different margins. Yet people keep buying…

> Basically companies like HP and Acer have multiple product ranges with different QA protocols and different margins. Yet people keep buying the cheapest consumer offerings and expect something mil-spec.

Yes. It still surprises me that most people I know - personally or otherwise - didn't figure it out yet: the lower bound on price for a consumer good is "just barely functional enough so that you can't sue the vendor for false advertising". And it's not that people expect milspec hardware. They just expect it to work decently, for a while. But those expectations are still too high.

Re: 3D Color Print

#122

Post by stevespang »

The HP corporate fine print:

1. Based on internal and third-party testing for HP Jet Fusion 580 and 5403D Printers, printing time is a fraction of the time of the printing times of comparable plastic fused deposition modeling (FDM), stereolithography (SLA), and material jetting solutions from $20,000 USD to $120,000 USD on market as of June, 2017. Testing variables for the HP JetFusion 580 3D Printer: Part quantity: 1 full build chamber of parts from HP Jet Fusion 3D at 10% of packing density versus same number of parts on above-mentioned competitive devices; Part size: 30 cm3; Layer thickness: .08 mm/0.003 inches. Competitor testing variables are comparable.

2. Based on internal testing and simulation, HP Jet Fusion 3D average printing time is up to 10 times faster than average printing time of comparable fused deposition modeling (FDM) and selective laser sintering (SLS) printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016. Testing variables for the HP Jet Fusion 4210/4200/3200 Printing Solutions: Part quantity: 1 full build chamber of parts from HP Jet Fusion 3D at 20% of packing density versus same number of parts on above-mentioned competitive devices; Part size: 30 grams; Layer thickness: 0.08 mm/0.003 inches.

3. Based on internal testing and public data, HP Jet Fusion 3D average printing cost per part is half the average cost of comparable FDM & SLS printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016. Cost analysis based on: standard solution configuration price, supplies price, and maintenance costs recommended by manufacturer. Cost criteria: printing 1 build chamber per day/5 days per week over 1 year of 30-gram parts at 10% packing density using HP 3D High Reusability PA 12 material, and the powder reusability ratio recommended by manufacturer. Based on internal testing and public data, HP Jet Fusion 3D 4210 Printing Solution average printing cost-per-part is 65% lower versus the average cost of comparable FDM and SLS printer solutions from $100,000 USD to $300,000 USD on market as of April, 2016 and is 50% lower versus the average cost of comparable SLS printer solutions for $300,000 USD to $450,000 USD. Cost analysis based on: standard solution configuration price, supplies price, and maintenance costs recommended by manufacturer. Cost criteria: printing 1.4 full build chambers of parts per day/5 days per week over 1 year of 30-gram parts at 10% packing density on fast print mode using HP 3D High Reusability PA 12 material, and the powder reusability ratio recommended by manufacturer.

© Copyright 2018 HP Development Company, L.P. The information contained herein is subject to change without notice.

Drum roll please . . . . and the price IS: "These new 3D printers are available today for order and will be shipping in the second half of the year, and have a price range beginning in the $50,000s and going up to “the low hundred thousand dollars” mark, noted Pastor."

Re: 3D Color Print

#123

Post by [deleted] »

dolguldur wrote: post #63

It's funny how I and other people see hp and immediately think of bad business practices that lead to a bad experience with the brand. Relates to the concept that you optimize for what you measure. Not factoring in that screwing over customers will have some impact down the line is also like some sort of debt (as in tech debt). It's like long term brand debt.

[deleted]

Re: 3D Color Print

#124

Post by mschuster91 »

s4vi0r wrote: post #116
mschuster91 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The touchpad is really bad. To be fair: I cannot stand any kind of Windows touchpad. They all pale in comparison with Apple stuff. It's not only the size (which makes many multitouch gestures possible) or the firmware quality (I have hit an unintended combo maybe four times on a Mac in two years, while it was a daily occurrence in the Windows world), but also the "feel". Apple trackpads use a glass surface, nearly…

Huge part of why I refuse to switch to a non-macbook laptop, despite not being at all happy with the direction they've taken the pro in with the latest iteration.

The question is: why doesn't any laptop maker employ this technology aside from Apple?

At least Samsung and Sony should have the competence in-house from their smartphone departments, so this should not be an issue with patents.

Re: 3D Color Print

#126

Post by ccozan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #113
tostitos1979 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a spectre and was extremely disappointed. This is after getting the signature edition Windows so it would be bloatfree. The touchpad is really bad.

> The touchpad is really bad. To be fair: I cannot stand any kind of Windows touchpad. They all pale in comparison with Apple stuff. It's not only the size (which makes many multitouch gestures possible) or the firmware quality (I have hit an unintended combo maybe four times on a Mac in two years, while it was a daily occurrence in the Windows world), but also the "feel". Apple trackpads use a glass surface, nearly…

Tbh, the closest I got was the touchpad of my X1 Carbon Thinkpad. Except from very minor tweeks I had to do, I felt like on a Mac.

Re: 3D Color Print

#127

Post by j2bax »

darkstar999 wrote: post #6

Can you imagine how much they would charge for the "ink" on these things?

To be fair, this isn't a consumer product by any stretch of the imagination. HP has been in the business market for a long time on large format printers as well as servers, where the money isn't as much in the media as it is in the premium price tag up front and service contracts.

Re: 3D Color Print

#128

Post by themagician »

dolguldur wrote: post #63

It's funny how I and other people see hp and immediately think of bad business practices that lead to a bad experience with the brand. Relates to the concept that you optimize for what you measure. Not factoring in that screwing over customers will have some impact down the line is also like some sort of debt (as in tech debt). It's like long term brand debt.

Is this really how people feel about HP?

I've always associated HP with printers — the LaserJet line specifically. I still use them for just about everything. They've always struck me as well built and reliable. Pretty good network/web UI. I've used some of their large formats too and those have been pretty nice.

Maybe I'm alone, but I'd trust HP to make a decent 3D printer.

Re: 3D Color Print

#129

Post by NegativeLatency »

leggomylibro wrote: post #110
borgchick wrote: post #66

While I am sure the HP solution will run circles around this, in both quality and in price, but XYZ Printing has introduced a (low cost) inkjet+FDM 3D printer. Basically it prints a layer with the FDM printer, then prints a layer of color with the inkjet. Now, it seems pretty hard to find any good reviews on Youtube about it. Obviously their marketing material shows it printing fabulous vibrant prints, but the "3D pr…

Ha, if you think filament is expensive NOW, just wait until you have an HP printer! That said, they do provide some interesting cost values which make it sound like this will probably be in the ballpark of low 6-figures: >1. Based on internal and third-party testing for HP Jet Fusion 580 and 5403D Printers, printing time is a fraction of the time of the printing times of comparable plastic fused deposition modeling (…

Fusion printers are even more expensive. You can only re-use the leftover powder so many times before it needs to be thrown out. The particles start to clump and melt making your prints less accurate.

Re: 3D Color Print

#130

Post by yuhong »

Thinking about it, it probably won't cost that much more to officially support basic PCB printing in almost all their printers, right?
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