The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West • Hacker News Board

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#101

Post by chewz » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

hokus wrote: post #68

The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. It is significant because this aspect of the west has not changed at all. Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) Until we start attributing invasions to the people who wanted them, those who organized them and those who profited from them this wont change…

I recommend reading Opium Wars by Julia Lovell. [1]

To answer your question - main lobbyst behind first Opium War was Scottish opium trader James Matheson [2]. The fortune he had made on selling opium to China had been invested in Rio Tinto[3] - mining company that survived till today.

[1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12147002-the-opium-war

[2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Matheson

[3]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Matheson_(industrialist...

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#102

Post by rocqua » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #44

PuffinBlue wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's maybe more that shops/businesses didnt accept payment by much other than cash, bank transfer or ec card. Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.

Yup, 2 years ago I went into a large chain store in Germany to buy a camera, no credit card accepted, in a place selling mostly expensive gear such as cameras, laptops, dishwashers... Boggled my mind. Fortunately I had enough cash this time.

I'd be surprised if any place here in the Netherlands would take a credit card. We are fully used to debit cards. Essentially, credit cards are only needed here for travel and international purchases. Everyday stuff is all with debit cards, cash is unusual.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#103

Post by badminton1 » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

The British empire invaded 9 out of 10 countries.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#104

Post by rocqua » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #67

Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call it nationalist denial. Or deliberate ignorance. This type of nonsense is embedded in English accounts of the British Empire. Variants of the “white man’s burden” and the sacred principles of the market can be spun in all sorts of interesting ways. The most galling example of this that I’m familiar with is the Irish famine. Millions died of starvation in the midst of a record bumper crop for export. The British…

It bothers me that almost every nation in the world has a "big shame" but probably the only people that faces, admits and owns their "big shame" are the Germans. Belgium still keeps statues of King Leopold, Spain keeps statues of Cortez and Pisarro, Portugal of Vasco da Gama, the US is only now arguing about the statues for Confederate soldiers; Italy, Poland and France never did a real "mea culpa" on how they actual…

Us dutchies are decent on admitting our faults. I think we are pretty clear about our mistakes in Indonesia, the biggest issue is probably the triangle trade in slaves. This is not something we stand behind as far as I know, though we still harken back to the times of the VOC as good because it was a 'golden age'.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#105

Post by DonaldFisk » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #95

DonaldFisk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without asking its inhabitants whether that is what they wanted.

Why would that matter? Hong Kong was originally seceded to Britain without asking whether that was what the inhabitants wanted. Territory is a matter between states, not inhabitants.

Not according to the United Nations Charter. In international law, people have a right to self determination.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#106

Post by def- » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

PuffinBlue wrote: post #38

jotm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a MasterCard or Visa was harder in Germany than it should've been. They're optional and cost extra, standard debit cards for a checking account are Cirrus/Maestro, which can't be used to pay online or abroad or in many places. It was easier to just use them to withdraw cash. Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the ca…

It's maybe more that shops/businesses didnt accept payment by much other than cash, bank transfer or ec card. Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.

> Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.

Some still don't and don't plan to.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#107

Post by lithos » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 8:07 PM UTC

jk2323 wrote: post #97

China had accumulated a lot of the world silver reserves by selling tons silk and porcelain but buying basically nothing. Selling Opium to China "solved" this problem. Today the have the idea of exporting everything to the world and buy nothing besides a few raw materials, creating a giant trade deficit. Let's see how it ends.

They already bypassed much of this generation's "drug of choice" by making foreign social media difficult.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#108

Post by vonnik » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

I think a more accurate headline would be "China's perception of the Opium Wars shape its view of the West." Why were the Opium Wars fought? One narrative says the Qing were trying to protect their population from the harms of addiction. But it is also true that the Qing were concerned about the outflow of silver, which was being used by Chinese merchants to buy opium, but which had also become the base currency of the Chinese economy in the mid-19th century. China was accumulating silver because it was selling more than it bought (sound familiar?), and opium was one commodity that found demand on the mainland.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#109

Post by scottlocklin » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

hokus wrote: post #68

The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes. It is significant because this aspect of the west has not changed at all. Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) Until we start attributing invasions to the people who wanted them, those who organized them and those who profited from them this wont change…

Bill Browder comes to mind.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#110

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 8:17 PM UTC

germanier wrote: post #93

ajmurmann wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and hyperinflation is a very real fear of mine. Not even my parents actually experienced that and I've not lived in the country on a decade, but I've heard many stories about it growing up. Transgenerational trauma is a very real thing.

I understand the fear (and it's often cited as a reason) but how does cash help with that? If it comes to a hyperinflation it will be worthless – this is exactly what happened last time.

But before that there will be people trying to get cash out of the atm. And those who have cash already have a slight advantage, when there is no more cash at the atm because the bank went bankrupt.

But apart from that, it is more a psychological thing, I guess. Cash you can hold in your hands, feels more safe than just some plastic card. So it is more about feeling, than real security I think.

But there is also the privacy issue. Paying with cash is anonymous. This is still a big thing and maybe the more important factor why cash is more important in germany ...