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The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

economist.com

61–70 of 140 posts

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#61

This reminds me of the articles saying that germans like to use cash because of the inflation 100y ago. It's just not true and likely being written by someone who has never asked a single german/chinese.

I'm German and hyperinflation is a very real fear of mine. Not even my parents actually experienced that and I've not lived in the country on a decade, but I've heard many stories about it growing up. Transgenerational trauma is a very real thing.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#62
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a MasterCard or Visa was harder in Germany than it should've been. They're optional and cost extra, standard debit cards for a checking account are Cirrus/Maestro, which can't be used to pay online or abroad or in many places. It was easier to just use them to withdraw cash. Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the ca…

It's maybe more that shops/businesses didnt accept payment by much other than cash, bank transfer or ec card. Even national chains, until very recently, didnt accept credit cards.

That would make sense, following hyperinflation.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#63
post #39

> Julia Lovell, a British historian, makes a similar point. In her book “The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of China”, she says the move into opium by British traders was not, as claimed by many Chinese historians, a deliberate conspiracy to make narcotic slaves of the Chinese. “It was a greedy, pragmatic response to a decline in sales of other British imports,” she writes. Is there a name for this fallacy?…

I don't think it is a fallacy. At most it is pedantic. She makes a good point about the difference between banal evil born from apathy and active evil born from hate. The difference is important not because one is morally better than the other, but because the strategy to prevent them is different in each case. Active hateful evil is relatively easy to prevent, just don't be a dick. But preventing the banal apathetic…

If you think all bad things are done by someone acting like Snidely Whiplash, you don't notice the bad things that are being done around you by "normal" folks.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#64

This reminds me of the articles saying that germans like to use cash because of the inflation 100y ago. It's just not true and likely being written by someone who has never asked a single german/chinese.

Or... Hong Kong was given back only in 1997 which still in living memory.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#65
post #39

> Julia Lovell, a British historian, makes a similar point. In her book “The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of China”, she says the move into opium by British traders was not, as claimed by many Chinese historians, a deliberate conspiracy to make narcotic slaves of the Chinese. “It was a greedy, pragmatic response to a decline in sales of other British imports,” she writes. Is there a name for this fallacy?…

[deleted]

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#66
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The West buys more from China than China buys from The West because there are long list of high tech & military stuff that China is simply not allowed to buy. it is so bad to the extent that Chinese are not allowed to buy Intel Phi processors which many of your local computer shops allow you to make orders. Surely Chinese are interesting in buying America's advanced jet fighters, missiles, submarines, aircraft carr…

> Surely Chinese are interesting in buying America's advanced jet fighters China's interested in buying precisely one round of each thing. And thereafter replacing it with their own. That's not a criticism, it's a fact of life in dealing with China. They have zero interest in being dependent on any outside nation more than absolutely necessary. The things you list, wouldn't even remotely dent the trade deficits China…

True story: In the late '50s and '60s, the Parker pen company had a manufacturing operation in China, making the Parker "51", a rather singular design. At some point, it was abandoned by Parker and closed down.

Sometime later, a Chinese company named Hero took over the plant and machinery and started making their own pens, including knock-offs of the "51" such as the Hero 616 and 100, and leading to a fair sized industry of Chinese fountain pens, many of which are very cheap to purchase apparently due to export subsidies by the Chinese government.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#67
post #39

> Julia Lovell, a British historian, makes a similar point. In her book “The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of China”, she says the move into opium by British traders was not, as claimed by many Chinese historians, a deliberate conspiracy to make narcotic slaves of the Chinese. “It was a greedy, pragmatic response to a decline in sales of other British imports,” she writes. Is there a name for this fallacy?…

I call it nationalist denial. Or deliberate ignorance. This type of nonsense is embedded in English accounts of the British Empire. Variants of the “white man’s burden” and the sacred principles of the market can be spun in all sorts of interesting ways. The most galling example of this that I’m familiar with is the Irish famine. Millions died of starvation in the midst of a record bumper crop for export. The British…

It bothers me that almost every nation in the world has a "big shame" but probably the only people that faces, admits and owns their "big shame" are the Germans.

Belgium still keeps statues of King Leopold, Spain keeps statues of Cortez and Pisarro, Portugal of Vasco da Gama, the US is only now arguing about the statues for Confederate soldiers; Italy, Poland and France never did a real "mea culpa" on how they actually helped and collaborated with the Nazis, Brazil and most of Latin America keep ignoring the ongoing extermination of their natives, most Japanese try to avoid knowing what their country did in Manchuria during WWII, Turkey keeps denying the Armenian genocide,...

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#68
The most significant to me is that all the death destruction and suffering was all to further enrich some 5ish rich dudes.

It is significant because this aspect of the west has not changed at all. Just look how our historians are happy to attribute such acts to countries(!???) Until we start attributing invasions to the people who wanted them, those who organized them and those who profited from them this wont change.

Its at best inaccurate to state Britain wanted the war, Britain organized it and Britain profited. At worst it is the very formula to keep at it.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#69
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomenon rooted in events a hundred years ago. It wouldn't be easy to prove though, and most people affected wouldn't be aware, so asking people on the street would be worthless.

> It doesn't seem unlikely that there could be cultural phenomen[a] rooted in events a hundred years ago. Absolutely! 1. It's quite possible that Germans still have an aversion to inflation due to the 1920's episode of hyperinflation in the Weimarer Republik. My grandmother often spoke of it, she had vivid memories of it, as she was selling groceries in the local "Konsum", had to put up new price tags every hour, and…

Thanks for that link. I find the Habsburg era fascinating. I remember my Croatian ancestors often lamenting the passing of the Empire, and Franz Josef's rule. They sure did leave us with a lot of good infrastructure: roads, buildings, railroad, etc. still in use today.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#70
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, having traveled extensively in Europe the Americas, and Asia, Germany does use cash far more than other countries even in Europe, although yes not to the extent cash is preferred in Asia.

Getting a MasterCard or Visa was harder in Germany than it should've been. They're optional and cost extra, standard debit cards for a checking account are Cirrus/Maestro, which can't be used to pay online or abroad or in many places. It was easier to just use them to withdraw cash. Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the ca…

You just have to look for the right bank, I've been happy for a couple of years with DKB now. Debit card and Free Visa CC, worldwide cash withdrawal (with CC) without any charges or fees.

> Sparkasse for some reason gave me a MasterCard that had it's own account, so I had to transfer money from the checking account to the card if I wanted to use it.

That's afaik normal for Germany, prepaid CC are probably the only CC you gonna get without a girokonto.

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