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The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

economist.com

11–20 of 140 posts

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#11

Communism will win

Communism, like libertarian capitalism, simplifies the human condition too much to win in a pure form. Both have important lessons, neither is sufficient.

At least, neither is sufficient for now; I can image fully automated luxury space communism working, once AI is good enough.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#12
post #4

It is not true. It's just that politicians need official reasons to do what they do. And it's a great thing to use historical reasons because nobody can really counter them. Not a single Chinese person I know thinks about Westerners as sources of the Opium Wars and therefore as enemies. The opinions move between "West is so rich, let's be more like them" and "We are nearly back to our old glory, now also learn some o…

>> Westerners as sources of the Opium Wars and therefore as enemies

The article is not wrong. Opium war, in the official narrative of recent Chinese history, is phrased as "the start of a hundred years of humiliation of China". It is heavily focused event in middle school history class. It definitely still shapes China in a lot of way, like the strictest drug prohibition may be in the whole world.

In every day communication, it might not be significant, but it does have a greater effect on a subconscious level, serving as foundation for regular Chinese folk to perceive the relationship with West in general, which is centered with invasion, humiliation, lose of sovereignty and the shame of inferiority.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#14

Yet its the same problem today that prompted the Opium Wars as back then: The West buys more from China than China buys from The West. Hopefully that colours the decisions made to rebalance the trade system.

> The West buys more from China than China buys from The West

because there are long list of high tech & military stuff that China is simply not allowed to buy. it is so bad to the extent that Chinese are not allowed to buy Intel Phi processors which many of your local computer shops allow you to make orders.

Surely Chinese are interesting in buying America's advanced jet fighters, missiles, submarines, aircraft carriers, satellites etc. On the non-military side, how about super computers, space techs, laser, semiconductor techs, optical fiber, high end composite materials. EU has very similar laws & policies, nothing really different from the US.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#15
post #6
post #3

China history is a warning sign against centralism and the ability of humanity to get stuck in loops, economic and culturally - where it from a ruling partys point of view doesn't make sense to do anything to escape the loop. Impressive is that china at least kept- enforced by the layout of the country, a centralized state. At least it did not decay as much as the middle east or africa - after reaching peak people.

The counter argument is that post-1949 communist rule has been an aberration in the amount of central control that the Communist Party has been able to exert. In Chinese, there is a saying, “the mountains are high, and the emperor is far away”. If you took a hard look at Chinese history, I think you’d find that there has never really been central control. Governors and bureaucrats of the various provinces and regions…

> In a sense, maybe the greatest gift to the Communist Party was the outbreak of WW2 that set the stage for the subsequent civil war. Instead of dozens of regional warlords, you had a “clean” battle between two sides. When the Communists won, they finally assumed more or less total control of the country.

I hadn't heard this before. From what I've heard, the Communists has to fight at least in two fronts: against the government as well as against Japan.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#16
post #4

It is not true. It's just that politicians need official reasons to do what they do. And it's a great thing to use historical reasons because nobody can really counter them. Not a single Chinese person I know thinks about Westerners as sources of the Opium Wars and therefore as enemies. The opinions move between "West is so rich, let's be more like them" and "We are nearly back to our old glory, now also learn some o…

This is the official narrative that is being sold to the people and being thought at school.

The opium wars are a very big part of Chinese history and current culture I don’t know who do you know In China but a few elites educated in the West are not a good sample.

Look at the average inner city population in tier 1-3 cities, look at the recent changes in the attitude towards foreigners in China this is definitely an existing issue.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#17
post #14

Yet its the same problem today that prompted the Opium Wars as back then: The West buys more from China than China buys from The West. Hopefully that colours the decisions made to rebalance the trade system.

> The West buys more from China than China buys from The West because there are long list of high tech & military stuff that China is simply not allowed to buy. it is so bad to the extent that Chinese are not allowed to buy Intel Phi processors which many of your local computer shops allow you to make orders. Surely Chinese are interesting in buying America's advanced jet fighters, missiles, submarines, aircraft carr…

The Xeon Phi deal was pretty silly considering that Inspur just bought GPUs instead and Intel was allowed to sell Xeon Phis to Baidu in large amounts.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#18
I don't understand the motivation of the article. Does the author try to justify the Opium War? Or to remind 1+ billion Chinese that the intepretation of history always subject to rulers' agenda, which is clearly stated in Chinese textbook? To show off his not-so-sharp observation to his readers? Or, to warn USA not to abandon the free trade principle?

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#19
I am surprised that the article makes no mention of the many Chinese action movies made that are set in the time period of the Opium Wars and that make explicit reference to it.

Given that the film is made in China and received state support, it is not an accident.

By the way the story of Baghdadi Jew, David Sassoon and his rise in prominence as a result of profiting from the Opium War is quite interesting in itself.

Re: The Opium Wars Still Shape China’s View of the West

#20
History shapes culture who knew? America is still fighting the Civil War.

But the Chinese don't blame the West for the decline of China and the fall of the empire. They blame the old corrupt elite. When Deng Xiaoping went abroad in the 80s he did his damnedest to appear cultured and in control.

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