Apple seeking to patent spyware • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#11

Post by bitdiddle » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 10:53 AM UTC

houseabsolute wrote: post #4

Answers the question: why do normal people, when they know the EFF exists at all, think it is a joke?

Well I never understood the phrase "normal people", that's sort of like "the real world", but given that "most people"(choose your study and scary high percentage) can't identify which century the civil was fought it and believe the president is a muslim, it wouldn't surprise me that normal people would think that an organization dedicated to protected their constitutional and civil rights was a joke.

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#12

Post by masklinn » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 10:59 AM UTC

jarmop wrote: post #8

ubernostrum wrote: post #3

So as about a million comments on Slashdot -- about as Apple-hating a place as you'll find -- pointed out, this patent application is basically for the phone equivalent of OnStar's "someone stole my car, find it and shut it down" system, plus a couple extra features like taking a picture of the thief or detecting attempts to get through the passcode lock. The patent, if granted, will most likely be bogus, but the int…

Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

> This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#13

Post by jsz0 » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:29 AM UTC

jarmop wrote: post #8

ubernostrum wrote: post #3

So as about a million comments on Slashdot -- about as Apple-hating a place as you'll find -- pointed out, this patent application is basically for the phone equivalent of OnStar's "someone stole my car, find it and shut it down" system, plus a couple extra features like taking a picture of the thief or detecting attempts to get through the passcode lock. The patent, if granted, will most likely be bogus, but the int…

Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

That's how the EFF is choosing to spin it. A more reasonable person might view it as another opt-in security feature similar to Find my iPhone/Remote Wipe. The biometrics stuff is similar to Nike+ -- I'd love to see that built in and available to third party applications with my permission.

It's one thing to educate people to the risks once a technology/feature is out there but to take a pre-emptive stand based on nothing but paranoid fantasy is dangerous. They might as well be advocating against TCP/IP since it's potentially a major privacy violation. Forget that it could be useful or facilitate new applications that people choose to use.

The EFF has apparently turned into just another scummy political organization. I'd love to see a detailed audit of their donations/expenses. Something isn't quite right over there.

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#14

Post by Samuel_Michon » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:33 AM UTC

From the patent description:

  "Many [..] electronic devices are used frequently by 
 their owners, and the electronic devices may contain 
 personal or sensitive information stored within them. [..] 
 Accordingly, if the electronic device is lost or stolen, 
 the loss of the electronic device can be exceedingly 
 disruptive to the owner's peace of mind and security. 
 Thus, the owner may desire to find out where the lost 
 electronic device is located or who may have gained 
 possession of or stolen the electronic device."

Note the use of the word "owner", not "Evil Empire". What is being described here is a service called "Find my iPhone", which is part of Apple's MobileMe subscription service. (What, you didn't think Apple would be spying on you for free, did you? $99 a year, baby!)

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#15

Post by 37prime » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:40 AM UTC

Sensationalistic headline from EFF. Then again, they need to raise some awareness, even though I am not always siding with them. I still do support the EFF.

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#16

Post by nuclear_eclipse » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:41 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #12

jarmop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

> This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone. Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?

If Apple doesn't agree with you that you own the software on the phone, then jailbreaking your phone is "stealing" the software from them...

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#17

Post by jrockway » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:50 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #12

jarmop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

> This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone. Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?

By removing their Restrictions Management software.

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#18

Post by jrockway » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:51 AM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

blasdel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're taking after the RMS school of linkbait PR — a mix of activism that's too earnest for all but their most strident supporters and neologisms so punny that even your dad would groan at them.

I know. I know. It isn't endearing when RMS or the FSF do it either. Turns me off from supporting them in the future.

OTOH, it keeps my $120 a year flowing.

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#19

Post by nuclear_eclipse » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 12:23 PM UTC

jsz0 wrote: post #13

jarmop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogy problem: You can't steal your own car. This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone.

That's how the EFF is choosing to spin it. A more reasonable person might view it as another opt-in security feature similar to Find my iPhone/Remote Wipe. The biometrics stuff is similar to Nike+ -- I'd love to see that built in and available to third party applications with my permission. It's one thing to educate people to the risks once a technology/feature is out there but to take a pre-emptive stand based on no…

TCP/IP isn't owned and controlled by a single corporation with a history of restricting user freedoms...

Re: Apple seeking to patent spyware

#20

Post by alextgordon » Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 1:28 PM UTC

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #16

masklinn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This application, bogus or not, is targeted to the possibility that you steal your own phone. Uh... how? And what sense does that even make? How can you steal what you already own exactly?

If Apple doesn't agree with you that you own the software on the phone, then jailbreaking your phone is "stealing" the software from them...

It seems much more likely that they'll use this to recover stolen phones (which makes them money), than to spy on jailbreakers (which makes them no money, and will probably get them sued).