Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

sparkfun.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#21

Post by Kliment »

Animats wrote: post #14
utopcell wrote: post #10

There are definitely somewhat mature DIY alternatives such as LitePlacer [1] and there is ongoing effort towards an open-source software stack for PnP machines [2], but for this area to really pick up, sub-$500 kits are probably necessary. One could argue that hobby-level 3D printing would have gone nowhere if 3D printers were at a ~$3,000 level. [1] https://www.liteplacer.com/ [2] http://openpnp.org/

Has anyone seen a Liteplacer in action? All the info I can find on it is from the seller. LitePlacer is designed for one-off jobs. It gets its parts from cut tape, not reels. It uses its vision system to line up on the parts tapes, so the tapes don't have to be precisely positioned. It's quite slow for a pick and place machine, but far faster than doing it by hand. Doesn't put down solder paste, though. There are a l…

I've seen it in action - it works but you have to be quite careful when building it. There's a bunch of gotchas and it changes over time so you have to be very very sure you're looking at the instructions for your actual kit. Also it isn't self-contained - you need a computer attached to it the entire time you run it. Still, the price point is amazing and it does what it says on the tin. (I don't own one but I've seen it in use).

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#22

Post by jotux »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #20
abetusk wrote: post #12

To me, here are the most relevant bits of why they chose the CHMT36VA over others: Let me say that the needs or SparkX are slightly odd. We need to build 10-50 of a design and see how it sells. As it sells we may need to build 100-500pcs. If a design needs more than 500 pieces then it immediately gets moved over to our proper SMD production lines with much more capable machines. SparkX needed something small and quic…

I am waiting for the emergence of nano factories. Basically vertically integrated businesses like Sparkfun that can design and manufacture a very wide range of products on site, sufficient to capture the value at the exploratory front end of product design and development.

Macrofab(macrofab.com) is pretty close to this, as is SeeedStudio (SeeedStudio.io).

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#25

Post by catherd »

I'll be interested to see if they are using it a year from now. Everyone I know who got the previous generation of similarly priced machines (like the Neodyn TM220/240A) no longer use them. Mostly due to the accuracy being not good enough for 0603 or similar sizes.

Computer vision really is the answer, but from reading the article it sounds like the CV on the CHMT36VA isn't great for parts that aren't 0603 and it's not open/easily hackable to be better.

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#26

Post by jcoffland »

vonnieda wrote: post #9
zdw wrote: post #2

Interesting that for such an inexpensive but specialized hardware device it still has a "phone home on boot" feature. Given what this device does compared to a 3d printer (xyz axis movement, suction head, part reel incrementer, webcam + identification software), it seems like a sufficiently motivated hobbyist could come up with something passably similar in the same price ballpark.

I'm the founder/author of OpenPnP, which exists to do exactly this. I've been working on the project for about 6 years now and I'm happy to say that lots of hobbyists, small companies, maker spaces, etc. have built and are running OpenPnP based pick and place machines. It's a harder problem than it seems, as I've found out over the past 6 years. While the basics are quite similar to a 3D printer, PnP has some unique…

OpenPnP is awesome! I enjoyed seeing you guys at the Bay Area Maker Faire last summer. We were about four booths down.

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#27

Post by jstanley »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #8
zdw wrote: post #2

Interesting that for such an inexpensive but specialized hardware device it still has a "phone home on boot" feature. Given what this device does compared to a 3d printer (xyz axis movement, suction head, part reel incrementer, webcam + identification software), it seems like a sufficiently motivated hobbyist could come up with something passably similar in the same price ballpark.

Yes, but if you can buy it for the same price it would cost to build, why bother building? Time has its own costs too.

Because you don't want it to phone home on every boot.

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#28

Post by CamperBob2 »

gh02t wrote: post #15
hoopladler wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hobbyist, I'd like one. You could do projects using hundreds or thousands of devices that are -at the moment- out of reach not for reasons of price, but rather because it would take too long to assemble the devices in question. For instance, tagging and tracking wild animals, or getting really granular local climate data. Electronics just gets more interesting the more it moves away from the monolithic device ap…

You're not gonna be able to pick-and-place anything with hundreds/thousands of parts at a hobby price point. Those kinds of machines are massive by necessity and hugely complex; I just can't imagine it happening for the very small number of people who would want to do something like that. If it did happen by some miracle, it'd have to follow from some sort of major technical advance. If you're one of the handful of h…

You're not gonna be able to pick-and-place anything with hundreds/thousands of parts at a hobby price point.

LitePlacer is almost there. IMHO the key is recognizing that production-oriented machines need to be fast, while hobbyist/small-shop prototyping machines don't. If I need to stuff a complex prototype board with 500 parts, I literally don't care if it takes all day and all night as long as I don't have to do it. Obviously production shops don't have that luxury, but I do.

Really, the only unsolved problem (at least at the 0402 and up level) is loose part pickup and orientation.

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#29

Post by stryk »

eggsome wrote: post #11
vonnieda wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the founder/author of OpenPnP, which exists to do exactly this. I've been working on the project for about 6 years now and I'm happy to say that lots of hobbyists, small companies, maker spaces, etc. have built and are running OpenPnP based pick and place machines. It's a harder problem than it seems, as I've found out over the past 6 years. While the basics are quite similar to a 3D printer, PnP has some unique…

For those interested, here is a video/demo of OpenPnP from LCA2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9BGVYnaOs8 (great project by the way!)

No way is that the same Aussie chap from SuperHouse? (he used to [?] do excellent video guides on DIY hacking those cheap Sonoff wi-fi enabled electrical relays)

Re: Unboxing Our New Desktop Pick and Place Machine

#30

Post by leggomylibro »

zdw wrote: post #2

Interesting that for such an inexpensive but specialized hardware device it still has a "phone home on boot" feature. Given what this device does compared to a 3d printer (xyz axis movement, suction head, part reel incrementer, webcam + identification software), it seems like a sufficiently motivated hobbyist could come up with something passably similar in the same price ballpark.

Maybe that "feature" is because of the 'inexpensive + specialized' thing.

PnP seems like a hard problem. I thought the same thing as you awhile ago, looked at some efforts that others were putting together, and was surprised at how many opted for complex things like computer vision to verify part positioning.

And it did not take long for me to decide that, like most problems I take a cursory look at, there was no flippin' way I'd be able to make anything workable on my own in a reasonable cost/time-box.

If I had an affordable plug-and-play design, I might take steps to protect it. Personally I'd think twice about a 'phone home' solution because I hate that shit as a consumer - or just open source it outright - but I can understand the stance.

Post reply on HN