Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#121

Post by mtgx » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

WisNorCan wrote: post #107

maxxxxx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All involved players are mainly interested in lining their own pockets. The question if this will come at the expense of patients or other players in health care.

There is nothing wrong with “lining your own pockets” as a motivation. It is the fundamental driver of capitalism and the motivation for most entrepreneurs.

That's how you get healthcare lobbyists to get laws passed that screw over patients and how you end-up with medicine that rises 100x in price.

Healthcare should be nationalized. Then the government would also have other positive incentives meant to lower healthcare costs, like reducing pollution, sugar in foods, other dangerous foods on the market, and so on.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#122

Post by rocketpastsix » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #117

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #53

It's not just the cost. It's the incredible inefficiency of the operations, and, the gerrymandering of coverage. Under the ACA, I had to choose between allowing my family to continue to see their lifetime care givers, or, paying in network rates, for the full year, because the insurance company I chose gave me incorrect information when they were trying to get my business (my wife is less kind in evaluating their mot…

You’re right, but respectfully, in the long term, “I want this specific provider at any cost” is somewhat of an edge case. A lot of (most?) people just want good healthcare and a low cost. That’s a complex but solveable problem.

No, its not an edge case. If you have a rapport with a doctor/care provider, you would want to stay with them. I have a genetic disease and an endocrinologist who helps me manage it. I wouldn't want to leave that doctor, who has seen me multiple times, has my charts, understands what Im working with, and so much more.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#123

Post by xigency » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

bpicolo wrote: post #52

dandare wrote: post #45

27 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16060201 > Could this problem be attacked by a goodwill billionaire with a long-term plan? Open several private medical schools that will offer "free" med education in exchange for multi-year contracts. Open many small copycat clinics. Manufacture your own generics if possible, import whatever is cheapest, focus on things you can do cheap, be transparent about pricing,…

> McDonaldize/Amazonize American healthcare CVS is sorta trying to do that (acquisition of Aetna is a big pointer)

After this deal was worked out, I could no longer fill prescriptions at Walgreens. Not what I would call an improvement.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#124

Post by IncRnd » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

samfriedman wrote: post #59

bpicolo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can tackle profit from other angles - sell medical supplies, etc.

I think it would be irresponsible at best for Amazon to tackle the medical supply/device market before they can get their counterfeiting problem under control.

It would be irresponsible at best for Amazon to tackle the medical supply/device market before they can learn to ship 20 items from the same fulfillment center on the same day in the same box instead of in 20 oversized but mostly empty boxes.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#125

Post by 23443463454 » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #53

It's not just the cost. It's the incredible inefficiency of the operations, and, the gerrymandering of coverage. Under the ACA, I had to choose between allowing my family to continue to see their lifetime care givers, or, paying in network rates, for the full year, because the insurance company I chose gave me incorrect information when they were trying to get my business (my wife is less kind in evaluating their mot…

It's a bit of an aside, but this whole issue, the bare knuckle fight about health care brings about an interesting deeper rooted issue that clearly and uniquely differentiates the two primary perspectives; one side always tends towards the heavy handed, imposing, authoritarian approach to force things they deem self-evident as desirable or have determined to be "good" and are thereby inherently inefficient and wasteful due to it's centrally planned, waterfall type approach ... and the other side tends to want to set up incentive structures that create pressures for efficiency and allows for free will and self-determination and discrimination to both succeed or fail on their own accord.

It is an eternal struggle of authoritarianism and imposition trying to subdue self-determination and self-governance.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#126

Post by kgwgk » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

mrb wrote: post #108

maxxxxx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All involved players are mainly interested in lining their own pockets. The question if this will come at the expense of patients or other players in health care.

Given that Buffett pledged to donate 90% of his wealth to charities, I'm not sure you can characterize him as "mainly interested in lining his own pocket."

Berkshire != Buffett

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#127

Post by dawhizkid » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

I strongly feel that what needs to be changed is employer-based healthcare itself. It is really kind of crazy, if you think about it, how closely the quality of our healthcare and the healthcare of our dependents is tied to the company we choose to be working for at the moment.

If you or a dependent take a very specific expensive medication that isn't covered by a plan a new employer might offer, then you pretty much can't take that job unless you want to pay out of pocket.

Employers can change the plans they offer every year as well, so really even at the same company you might face the same dilemma at the next open enrollment.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#128

Post by prklmn » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #113

prklmn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes beyond pricing. Mutual insurance policy owners were paid dividends based on principle investment. Berkshire pays dividends to shareholders, i.e. Warren Buffet, while policy holders get nothing but insurance coverage.

Not only has Berkshire never paid dividends, as another comment noted, Buffett decided three decades ago to give all of his wealth away to the benefit of less fortunate people. What's your next premise?

I was wrong, replace dividends with stock buybacks and buying up other companies, it's the same impact on the policy holder, who will still see no financial gain from holding the policy. Did you consider that some of those less fortunate people that he donates to might be less fortunate because they've been paying into an insurance system that for 40+ years years has provided them no return?

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#129

Post by gigatexal » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

I work for a healthcare services company. The industry is ripe for disruption just in the way data is handled and managed. What I found interesting in the article is that the new firm would not be “profit seeking”. Interesting. I wonder if Amazon would do what they did for years and put any and all profits back into the new company. But then why partner with an investment bank?

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#130

Post by maxxxxx » Tue, Jan 30, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

mrb wrote: post #108

maxxxxx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All involved players are mainly interested in lining their own pockets. The question if this will come at the expense of patients or other players in health care.

Given that Buffett pledged to donate 90% of his wealth to charities, I'm not sure you can characterize him as "mainly interested in lining his own pocket."

To me he is a character like Gates, Rockefeller or Carnegie. Ruthless, ever greedy businesspeople who get as much as they can out of business at any cost. Then they give a big part of it away. The question is whether the health care thing is part of the making money activities or part of the giving away activities.

You can always hope for the best so let's see what happens. Looking at the American health system I am not very optimistic.