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Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

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Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#51

Post by Spooky23 »

jawns wrote: post #7

> The three companies said they plan to set up a new independent company "that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints." I wonder if they will be setting it up as a health insurance cooperative, an organizational structure in which the primary goal is to serve its members, rather than to generate value for external shareholders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_cooperative It's not at all…

My guess is that they’ll build a super HMO.

The way to change the game in healthcare is to eject the legacy bullshit. Own the experience as a vertical, don’t accept Medicare/Medicaid and the price controls that come with it and you slice out a lot of the overheads.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#52

Post by bpicolo »

dandare wrote: post #45

27 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16060201 > Could this problem be attacked by a goodwill billionaire with a long-term plan? Open several private medical schools that will offer "free" med education in exchange for multi-year contracts. Open many small copycat clinics. Manufacture your own generics if possible, import whatever is cheapest, focus on things you can do cheap, be transparent about pricing,…

> McDonaldize/Amazonize American healthcare

CVS is sorta trying to do that (acquisition of Aetna is a big pointer)

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#53

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

It's not just the cost. It's the incredible inefficiency of the operations, and, the gerrymandering of coverage. Under the ACA, I had to choose between allowing my family to continue to see their lifetime care givers, or, paying in network rates, for the full year, because the insurance company I chose gave me incorrect information when they were trying to get my business (my wife is less kind in evaluating their motives). I paid $30,000 in health care expenses out of pocket that year for what was essentially a healthy family. I was not permitted to change insurance companies once I learned they had misled me.

Buffet calls them a tapeworm, I call it the next, ongoing rape of the American middle class.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#54

Post by cptskippy »

robbiemitchell wrote: post #13
jawns wrote: post #7

> The three companies said they plan to set up a new independent company "that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints." I wonder if they will be setting it up as a health insurance cooperative, an organizational structure in which the primary goal is to serve its members, rather than to generate value for external shareholders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_cooperative It's not at all…

One of the benefits a profit motive brings to insurance companies is pushing back on improper billing by providers (doctors/hospitals) and negotiating lowest possible care and drug rates. Tech-focused insurers like Oscar also invest heavily to help guide members toward better care paths, which if done well lead to better care at less expense (for both the member and insurer). Unrelated: one of the worst parts of insu…

> One of the benefits a profit motive brings to insurance companies is pushing back on improper billing by providers

And one of the reasons for the most complicated billing system in the world is for-profit Insurance companies.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#55

Post by qaq »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #46
_m8fo wrote: post #6

I've always wondered what's stopping someone from creating a non-profit and just having people join it in order to give the non-profit ability to negotiate lower prices. I imagine there's a cost to set this up, but is that cost less than the marginal cost of each employee and the savings they would (presumably) receive if enough people joined?

> I've always wondered what's stopping someone from creating a non-profit and just having people join it in order to give the non-profit ability to negotiate lower prices. Likely the fact that many of these prices are basically standardized because of CMS. Providers basically look to what the Medicare/Medicaid standard is as a benchmark for pricing. As a provider why accept a lower price from insurance when the gov't…

Have you seen rates Medicare/Medicaid pays? It's generally way lower vs what private insurance providers can negotiate

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#56

Post by dannyw »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #46
_m8fo wrote: post #6

I've always wondered what's stopping someone from creating a non-profit and just having people join it in order to give the non-profit ability to negotiate lower prices. I imagine there's a cost to set this up, but is that cost less than the marginal cost of each employee and the savings they would (presumably) receive if enough people joined?

> I've always wondered what's stopping someone from creating a non-profit and just having people join it in order to give the non-profit ability to negotiate lower prices. Likely the fact that many of these prices are basically standardized because of CMS. Providers basically look to what the Medicare/Medicaid standard is as a benchmark for pricing. As a provider why accept a lower price from insurance when the gov't…

Amazon is basically about vertical integration. I'd be surprised if they do not enter the provider space. Don't forget the rumors that Amazon is planning to offer its own branded generics.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#57

Post by swarnie_ »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #53

It's not just the cost. It's the incredible inefficiency of the operations, and, the gerrymandering of coverage. Under the ACA, I had to choose between allowing my family to continue to see their lifetime care givers, or, paying in network rates, for the full year, because the insurance company I chose gave me incorrect information when they were trying to get my business (my wife is less kind in evaluating their mot…

Hearing the report on Bloomberg news earlier today. Isn't this just for the 900k employees and isn't it just focusing on wearable tech?

It sounded more like fitbit with cloud services than insurance.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#58

Post by qaq »

tw1010 wrote: post #21

I'm neutral on the particulars of this venture (it's probably positive). But how can anyone argue that the market is efficient when it is possible for companies that "is free from profit-making incentives" to exist? Just curious. How does this example fit into that framework?

Amazon has 500K employees JPM 250K if they can save 20-30% by doing this that's a very healthy profit for them

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#59

Post by samfriedman »

bpicolo wrote: post #50
jedgardyson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a setup for a broader push into healthcare by these companies. The sector is still growing, Amazon is already working out the pharmacy space. "[F]ree from profit-making incentives and constraints" sounds like the strategy they've used so far to dominate sections of online retail.

They can tackle profit from other angles - sell medical supplies, etc.

I think it would be irresponsible at best for Amazon to tackle the medical supply/device market before they can get their counterfeiting problem under control.

Re: Amazon, Berkshire, JPMorgan to Create Healthcare Company

#60

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bpicolo wrote: post #49
jawns wrote: post #7

> The three companies said they plan to set up a new independent company "that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints." I wonder if they will be setting it up as a health insurance cooperative, an organizational structure in which the primary goal is to serve its members, rather than to generate value for external shareholders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_cooperative It's not at all…

This is something I've been thinking about for a while - what would insurance companies (and even other companies in every vertical) look like with some incentive other than profit? Paying good salaries is one thing, but doing it for the sake of external shareholders is a different case. Newman's Own is one interesting (and successful) example I can think of that's an otherwise for-profit company acting effectively a…

I'm at a cooperative nonprofit insurance company - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univ%C3%A9 - basically, it's cheaper and nicer.
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