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My new favorite book of all time

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Re: My new favorite book of all time

#371
post #117

On this topic, I highly recommend watching 200 countries, 200 years, 4 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo You see how wealth and health have changed over time. In particular you see that there is NO country today which is as badly off as EVERY country was 200 years ago. When you digest the truth of that, and look at it in terms of family stories, impact on society and so on, my impression is that we…

In particular you see that there is NO country today which is as badly off as EVERY country was 200 years ago.

I tend to believe that this argument is generally true, but some researchers have argued that it is very sensitive to the specific endpoints chosen. In his preface to A Farewell to Arms, economist Greg Clark argues (about the world circa 2007):

> "Prosperity, however, has not come to all societies. Material consumption in some countries, mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, is now well below the preindustrial norm. Countries such as Malawi or Tanzania would be better off in material terms had they never had contact with the industrialized world and instead continued in their preindustrial state. Modern medicine, airplanes, gasoline, computers—the whole technological cornucopia of the past two hundred years—have succeeded there in producing among the lowest material living standards ever experienced. These African societies have remained trapped in the Malthusian era, where technological advances merely produce more people and living standards are driven down to subsistence. But modern medicine has reduced the material minimum required for subsistence to a level far below that of the Stone Age."

Clark also argues that:

>"Indeed in 1800 the bulk of the world’s population was poorer than their remote ancestors. The lucky denizens of wealthy societies such as eighteenth-century England or the Netherlands managed a material lifestyle equivalent to that of the Stone Age. But the vast swath of humanity in East and South Asia, particularly in China and Japan, eked out a living under conditions probably significantly poorer than those of cavemen. The quality of life also failed to improve on any other observable dimension. Life expectancy was no higher in 1800 than for hunter-gatherers: thirty to thirty-five years. Stature, a measure both of the quality of diet and of children’s exposure to disease, was higher in the Stone Age than in 1800. And while foragers satisfy their material wants with small amounts of work, the modest comforts of the English in 1800 were purchased only through a life of unrelenting drudgery. Nor did the variety of material consumption improve. The average forager had a diet, and a work life, much more varied than the typical English worker of 1800, even though the English table by then included such exotics as tea, pepper, and sugar"

A lot of present arguments seem to center on the shape and AUC of the progress curve, and whether that has any implications for predictions based on historical data.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel like Homo Deus compares to Sapiens w.r.t. being hand wavy and having a solid grasp on what the potential futures are that we are facing?

Not OP, but as a reader of both Sapiens and Homo Deus, I feel like the latter is a bit of fluff already covered by the end of Sapiens. Not a bad book, but more baseless theorizing while Sapiens was a really rich examination of history where he author definitely applied a lifetime of study and research.

The Sapiens author would have been around 34 years old at the time his book was published.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And any direct war that happened after 1945, had one belligerent that did not possess nuclear weapons, who turned out to be loser. That's the reason victor decided to wage war against him, citing some puny reason for the aggression.

> And any direct war that happened after 1945, had one belligerent that did not possess nuclear weapons, who turned out to be loser The Vietnam War would seem to belie your claim

I don't think Vietnam had nuclear weapons back then, or did they?

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#374
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artificial? As opposed to the natural mechanic that paints billboards with coca cola commercials, or undercut things like tap water in terms of price through hostile negotiations for water rights?

The phrase he used was "artificially protect". This would be in comparison to allowing culture to change over time naturally.

There's no "naturally" when one side has all the might and the bucks.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author covers that. (More details and argument for why he thinks that is in his book) https://stevenpinker.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions-ab... The explanation for the decline of violence in the second half of the 20th century is obvious: The bomb. The theory of the Nuclear Peace is evaluated in chapter 5, pp. 268–278. I think it’s unlikely. World War II proved that conventional warfare was already unthinka…

> Finally, the Nuclear Peace theory can’t explain why non-nuclear powers have avoided war, too—why Canada and Spain, for example, never escalated their dispute over flatfish to a shooting war. Frankly, this looks to me like Pinker is reasoning from a provably false premise. Non-nuclear powers haven't avoided war. The Congo War killed ~4 million people, including 300,000+ via direct killings. The Yugoslav Wars killed…

I think the Falkland war makes a good example of two first world countries, one of them even nuclear, going to war.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#376
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bombing of Dresden is well known, of course, but it doesn't compare to a single bomb that can level cities when it comes to deterring your enemy. I'm not trying to diminish the scale of destruction in Dresden, but there are many cities other than it that got destroyed in similar, "conventional" way (like Warsaw, Breslau or Tokyo), so I don't see why it should be treated in a special way.

> Bombing of Dresden is well known, of course, but it doesn't compare to a single bomb that can level cities when it comes to deterring your enemy. It does actually. The only difference is how long it took and arguably Dresden was in worse shape than Hiroshima or Nagasaki. > I'm not trying to diminish the scale of destruction in Dresden Well, forgive me. > but there are many cities other than it that got destroyed in…

> Warsaw, Breslau or Tokyo (and Rotterdam, for that matter) do not compare even though the destruction there was widespread.

It really must have required special kind of ignorance to write this sentence.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#377
post #47

The British philosopher John Gray is a good counterpart to Pinker's idea of progress. He focuses on the myths of progress, civilisation and freedom. This is his response to Pinker: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/13/john-gray-stev... "A new orthodoxy, led by Pinker, holds that war and violence in the developed world are declining. The stats are misleading, argues Gray – and the idea of moral progress is wi…

People talked optimistically about the end of war in the early 20th century when it looked like war had gone the way of the dodo. The last major international conflict was a century earlier when the Powers deposed the second rise of Napoleon. There were a number of internal civil wars in the meantime mainly dealing with the transition from monoarchy to republics and the consolidation of related city states intomcountries. The early 20th century had much progress in industrialisation, invention and global trade.

Then WWI happened, following soon by WWII, partly based on a poor resolution of WWI. Then a 45 year Cold War with several close nuclear wars.

Thats why I am skeptical the concept of world war is really over.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#378
post #72

> Time spent doing laundry fell from 11.5 hours a week in 1920 to an hour and a half in 2014. This might sound trivial in the grand scheme of progress. But the rise of the washing machine has improved quality of life by freeing up time for people—mostly women—to enjoy other pursuits. This. I remember following Reddit AMAs of two centenarian women, women who remembered SS troops arriving at their village, who watched…

Plus the refrigeration and industrialized food like processed dinners and fast food. These cut food preparation from tens of hours a week tomjust a few hours. Further automation like food deliveryband cooking systems could this even further.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#379

This article/video explains why so many people have completely lost faith in our technocratic elite. The idea that "You’re 37 times less likely to be killed by a bolt of lightning than you were at the turn of the century" makes a large difference in the happiness of people is ridiculous. Why are people pessimistic about the future? Maybe its because the rates of addiction (including to smart phones and other screens)…

I suggest its the poltical news cycle which emphasizes bad news at the expense of good. The US democratic party did not trumpet the progress of recovery from the Great Recession. Instead it focused on the inequalities that remained. True the opposition also focused on the problems of the middle class. But turned 180 degrees once in power claiming to own the economic recovery.

Re: My new favorite book of all time

#380

" War is illegal. This idea seems obvious. But before the creation of the United Nations in 1945, no institution had the power to stop countries from going to war with each other. Although there have been some exceptions, the threat of international sanctions and intervention has proven to be an effective deterrent to wars between nations." I would argue that something else that happened in 1945 has been a much bigge…

I would argue that it’s just USA centric view of impact of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - the damages where on par with “traditional” fire bombing. So their role in ending the war is hugely overestimated for propaganda reasons.
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