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Why I find IOTA alarming

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Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#81
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custom crypto primitives (ciphers, hashes, etc.) is a big red flag to me unless the designers are cryptographers. I know a fair bit about crypto. I would implement (and have implemented) higher order constructions like encrypted and authenticated protocols according to design patterns and principles put forward by competent cryptographers. I would never ever even attempt to design a cipher or a cryptographically stro…

> Actual deep cryptography such as cipher design is an area where truly extreme and very esoteric expertise is required to even get started I hear this every time cryptography is brought up. I think I get that it's hard, but people make it sound like it's the hardest thing ever . Where does this extreme complexity stem from? And what's the field of knowledge required? (Mathematics I imagine)

Specifically, you will want strong experience in several subfields of maths. You will want:

* Computer science, specifically complexity theory and circuits

* Galois field theory (AKA finite field theory)

* Group theory

* Number theory

* Specialities include elliptic curves and modular forms, lattices (in the ordered/on-the-plane way, not the algebraic structures)

In general, cryptographic design and analysis is all about a guess that we have in mathematics: We think that one-way functions exist. We think that we have certain specific tools, such as the discrete logarithm problem and Feistel networks, which can be carried from one domain to another reusably, and as a result the bleeding edge of research is currently concerned with finding new domains, as quantum computers will rapidly be obsoleting our current ones.

This isn't the hardest thing ever, but you're going to have to spend a few years getting your maths up to snuff. I've personally spent over a decade and while I've done a lot of things, I've still yet to contribute usefully to the cryptographic community; I haven't accrued enough knowledge to do more than analyze basic protocols and read some classic cryptanalysis papers.

Hope this helps; everything should be Googlable or on Wikipedia.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitConnect, a literal Ponzi scheme that was repeatedly flagged to newbies as a Ponzi scheme they should avoid, had a $2.5 billion market cap last month before collapsing. While IOTA boosters probably have a story they believe that justifies the hype in their mind, just because it’s worth $6 billion in this market doesn’t mean they necessarily have a good one. For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow tha…

> For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow that I consider smart or savvy, none of them are IOTA bulls. Would it be possible to stop using crypto as a shorthand for cryptocurrency? It's already a term of art for the much older field of cryptography and things get confusing, especially as all the crypto(graphy) people I follow consider altcoins in general to be hype. Not to mention it makes no sense, kry…

I don't think this is half as annoying as the "hoverboard" fad which never really "hovered". And you know how that turned out. It's impossible to put the cat back in the box once it's out.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#83
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow that I consider smart or savvy, none of them are IOTA bulls. Would it be possible to stop using crypto as a shorthand for cryptocurrency? It's already a term of art for the much older field of cryptography and things get confusing, especially as all the crypto(graphy) people I follow consider altcoins in general to be hype. Not to mention it makes no sense, kry…

No. Give up. It's over. Use context clues. Not a statement on the merit of cryptocurrency or your reasoning, just a descriptivist observation.

I don't care one way or the other but I don't see 'crypto' being that widespread yet.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#84
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it is using balanced Ternary makes it seem like the science project of young/inexperienced developers. If you're building a cryptocurrency put away your hubris and use what is tried-and-true.

From their Learning IOTA FAQ: What makes IOTA quantum-secure? IOTA uses hash-based signatures ( https://www.imperialviolet.org/2013/07/18/hashsig.html ) instead of elliptic curve cryptography (ECC). Not only is hash-based signatures a lot faster than ECC, but it also greatly simplifies the overall protocol (signing and verification). What actually makes IOTA quantum-secure is the fact that we use Winternitz signature…

In the original article linked it talks about how people found a flaw in the cryptographic hash function. When it was pointed out to the founder he basically said "Yeah we knew it was not secure. We put it in there so if anyone copied our code we could undermine them."

That smells fishy to me. Whether his statement is true or not he cannot be trusted. And the fact that they are using unproven in-house cryptography again supports my view of IOTA as a science project rather that something serious and dependable.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#85

Oh man, this article reminded me I should sell what little IOTA I have, so I tried to. Here's what happened: I launched my wallet and saw a zero balance and zero transactions. I looked around and heard from some friends that I need to convert my funds or something, because there was a "snapshot" yesterday. I clicked the "re-attach" button and waited for a few minutes. It failed, so I did it again and again and again.…

No offense but your comment is unintentionally humorous because you're asking all these sane questions blaming the mindless people who bought into IOTA, but you happen to be one of them as you describe yourself. > This is absolutely insane and I can't believe this thing ever got traction. It got traction because people--including yourself--bought into it without thinking much. > It feels like hacks upon hacks upon ha…

> You never actually tried to use the coins for anything until this point when you are now finally trying to "cash out".

An alternate (and correct) interpretation is that I bought IOTA as I thought I may end up using it in my IoT projects. I didn't (probably because nobody working for IOTA actually cares about IoT), and now I want to sell them for a more useful currency.

Not everyone wants coins for speculation, but you're forgiven for thinking otherwise.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#86
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 8 times more efficient than binary They're claiming this, for what operation? And similar question for the 10% usage claim. I suspect storage will be the same when you get done packing into machine words and storing those, yes? Unless they're not using all the bits in a word... Any independent references for ternary efficiencies for any operation?

IOTA is built for the internet of things and more specifically for sensors operating in the field. Perhaps with limited acces, perhaps with long intervals between service periods. Generally, you would't care about an 8 fold efficiency increase when you're hooked up onto a powerline but remote sensing equipment does.

Such devices are using ARM Cortex M0, M1, or M3 processors. Maybe even lower power Atmel stuff like in the Arduino. Such devices are connected via either expansive uplinks or slow uplinks like with LPWAN.

For all these applications IOTA is not feasible. It is not feasible because the ternary logic needs to be emulated on a processor that itself has not even enough beef to do cryptographic functions by itself. If they have cryptographic support like the e.g. the SE series from STM with a Cortex M0 as used in the Ledger Nano S, then this is optimized for standard cryptographic algorithms and not for some newly invented stuff.

Also if we talk about IOT sensor networking with LPWAN (LoRa, SigFox, ...) than bandwith is a real issue. That means collecting transactions from others and doing PoW on that before sending of your own transaction is completely unrealistic. The remote sensor just wants to transmit its data. But that would mean the LPWAN Gateway needs to be a full node doing the PoW. But LPWAN works, that everybody can listen to transaction request and so we are back to the collisions problem.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitConnect, a literal Ponzi scheme that was repeatedly flagged to newbies as a Ponzi scheme they should avoid, had a $2.5 billion market cap last month before collapsing. While IOTA boosters probably have a story they believe that justifies the hype in their mind, just because it’s worth $6 billion in this market doesn’t mean they necessarily have a good one. For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow tha…

> For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow that I consider smart or savvy, none of them are IOTA bulls. Would it be possible to stop using crypto as a shorthand for cryptocurrency? It's already a term of art for the much older field of cryptography and things get confusing, especially as all the crypto(graphy) people I follow consider altcoins in general to be hype. Not to mention it makes no sense, kry…

> Would it be possible to stop using crypto as a shorthand for cryptocurrency?

Too late, the language has changed whether you like it or not.

https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/946630708805566464

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#88
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it’s worth, of all the crypto people I follow that I consider smart or savvy, none of them are IOTA bulls. Would it be possible to stop using crypto as a shorthand for cryptocurrency? It's already a term of art for the much older field of cryptography and things get confusing, especially as all the crypto(graphy) people I follow consider altcoins in general to be hype. Not to mention it makes no sense, kry…

No. Give up. It's over. Use context clues. Not a statement on the merit of cryptocurrency or your reasoning, just a descriptivist observation.

Another possibility: folks like your parent may be able to keep fighting this fight long enough for cryptocurrency to fall off the mainstream hype radar and the smaller, more knowledgeable, community driving whatever the future steady-state of all this craziness ends up being may actually coalesce on better language (something involving "blockchain" perhaps?).

I tend to think you're right that it's time to just sigh, shake our collective head, roll our collective eyes, and give up fighting this battle, but the future I just described seems at least somewhat plausible to me.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense but your comment is unintentionally humorous because you're asking all these sane questions blaming the mindless people who bought into IOTA, but you happen to be one of them as you describe yourself. > This is absolutely insane and I can't believe this thing ever got traction. It got traction because people--including yourself--bought into it without thinking much. > It feels like hacks upon hacks upon ha…

> You never actually tried to use the coins for anything until this point when you are now finally trying to "cash out". An alternate (and correct) interpretation is that I bought IOTA as I thought I may end up using it in my IoT projects. I didn't (probably because nobody working for IOTA actually cares about IoT), and now I want to sell them for a more useful currency. Not everyone wants coins for speculation, but…

The other possibility (not just you and IOTA, but for others) is that a lot of coins have free offerings at their launch to get things off the ground. Stellar is an example.

So yeah, just because someone owns coins doesn't mean they are/were mindless speculators.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You never actually tried to use the coins for anything until this point when you are now finally trying to "cash out". An alternate (and correct) interpretation is that I bought IOTA as I thought I may end up using it in my IoT projects. I didn't (probably because nobody working for IOTA actually cares about IoT), and now I want to sell them for a more useful currency. Not everyone wants coins for speculation, but…

The other possibility (not just you and IOTA, but for others) is that a lot of coins have free offerings at their launch to get things off the ground. Stellar is an example. So yeah, just because someone owns coins doesn't mean they are/were mindless speculators.

Oh, true, they did give out some coins (me included).

Yet another possibility (which is how... a friend of mine... uses coins) is buying weed from the dark web. That's a big use case right now.

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