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Why I find IOTA alarming

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Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#11
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

1. There have been no vulnerabilities in the past. Please read: https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t... 2. If people are unable to generate a simple seed (password) on their own. How can they even begin to understand cryptocurrency or even new tech based on IoT? Still, yes it should be in the wallet and it will be added, but only for investors, I guess?! 3. Please read the following from their…

1. The vulnrability existed in their active codebase and network - only AFTER the research team contacted IOTA with the working exploit did they shut the entire (centralized) network down to patch the code.

  “In 2017, leaving your crypto algorithm vulnerable to 
  differential cryptanalysis is a rookie mistake. It says 
  that no one of any calibre analyzed their system, and that 
  the odds that their fix makes the system secure is low,” 
   

  Bruce Schneier, renowned security technologist, 
  about IOTA when we shared our attack.



  We discovered a vulnerability in IOTA after reviewing 
  their code on GitHub in July. We disclosed what we found 
  to the IOTA team on July 14th, and have been in contact 
  with them since then as we discovered new issues and 
  exploits. IOTA issued a patch that addresses the 
  vulnerabilities we found on August 7th. IOTA no longer has 
  the vulnerabilities we found, they have been fixed. To 
  learn more about the details of our attack, you can view 
  the full disclosure and review our attack examples.

https://github.com/mit-dci/tangled-curl/blob/master/vuln-iot...

https://github.com/mit-dci/tangled-curl

2. If every other cryptocurrency software team can impliment seed generation in their wallet software, why does IOTA refuse to?

3. Please read this comment from the CEO of IOTA, David Sønstebø on why he doesn't care if you lose money using IOTA: https://reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7gwl38/hello_gu...

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There have been no vulnerabilities in the past. Please read: https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t... 2. If people are unable to generate a simple seed (password) on their own. How can they even begin to understand cryptocurrency or even new tech based on IoT? Still, yes it should be in the wallet and it will be added, but only for investors, I guess?! 3. Please read the following from their…

> 1. There have no vulnerabilities in the past. I don't know man, the MIT Digital Currency Initiative found a pretty bad one last August: https://medium.com/@neha/cryptographic-vulnerabilities-in-io... > the IOTA developers had written their own hash function, Curl, and it produced collisions (when different inputs hash to the same output). Once we developed our attack, we could find collisions using commodity hardwa…

What’s even worse is that they claimed the flaws were deliberate, and a method of ‘copy protection’, where the flaws were somehow avoided in their full codebase but would cause any competitor that copied their open source code to suffer the flaws.

Smells like a BS excuse to me, and if true, perhaps an even bigger red flag as it strikes me as a very unethical move that is antithetical to open source ideology.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There have been no vulnerabilities in the past. Please read: https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t... 2. If people are unable to generate a simple seed (password) on their own. How can they even begin to understand cryptocurrency or even new tech based on IoT? Still, yes it should be in the wallet and it will be added, but only for investors, I guess?! 3. Please read the following from their…

> 1. There have no vulnerabilities in the past. I don't know man, the MIT Digital Currency Initiative found a pretty bad one last August: https://medium.com/@neha/cryptographic-vulnerabilities-in-io... > the IOTA developers had written their own hash function, Curl, and it produced collisions (when different inputs hash to the same output). Once we developed our attack, we could find collisions using commodity hardwa…

You should really read my first link and https://twitter.com/c___f___b/status/956445618381246464

The MIT-DCI are not credible..

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#14
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

Custom crypto primitives (ciphers, hashes, etc.) is a big red flag to me unless the designers are cryptographers.

I know a fair bit about crypto. I would implement (and have implemented) higher order constructions like encrypted and authenticated protocols according to design patterns and principles put forward by competent cryptographers. I would never ever even attempt to design a cipher or a cryptographically strong hash unless I were just playing around, and would never label my work as anything other than such. Even trying to innovate on constructions (like how to combine a MAC with a cipher) would make me very nervous and I'd seek the advice of a pro.

Multiply that nervousness by ten if the system is a cryptocurrency, which has a big "hack me" sign on it with a massive cash bounty.

Actual deep cryptography such as cipher design is an area where truly extreme and very esoteric expertise is required to even get started, and where the consequences of a failure are pretty dire. Even people who can design ciphers are conservatives when they implement real secure systems, only using those ciphers that have been through years of academic cryptanalysis. This area is very different from other areas of computer science and math.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#15
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

$6b market cap as of now and to think that it used to be $14b https://www.coingecko.com/en/price_charts/iota/usd was madness enough

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. There have no vulnerabilities in the past. I don't know man, the MIT Digital Currency Initiative found a pretty bad one last August: https://medium.com/@neha/cryptographic-vulnerabilities-in-io... > the IOTA developers had written their own hash function, Curl, and it produced collisions (when different inputs hash to the same output). Once we developed our attack, we could find collisions using commodity hardwa…

You should really read my first link and https://twitter.com/c___f___b/status/956445618381246464 The MIT-DCI are not credible..

I value the MIT Media Lab and its DCI group pretty highly. There is nothing about the Media Lab or the DCI in that first link of yours. [1]

So what were you trying to say?

What I did find in that first link of yours [1] is this gem though:

> The IOTA hash function, Curl-P, was designed to allow for practical collisions. The IOTA protocol’s security depends solely upon the one-wayness of the function, not its collision resistance. The rationale behind the design of Curl-P is a much more complicated question which we explain in detail.

This statement is alarming on so many levels.

[1] https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t...

// edit: oops, I see now that it's a multipart post, so I'll have a look there.

// edit: yeah okay, nothing of substance in the other parts either.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#17
I just copy paste from CfB's response, in case you missed it:

Thank you. This article was useful for me, it showed what details of IOTA haven’t been highlighted yet. Below I list incorrect things from the article, if you find time it would be great if you paid more attention to them and shared your thoughts:

“IOTA has no limit on transactions and therefore, it has no limit on bandwidth requirements or disk space.” — In the future the majority of the nodes will be swarm nodes forming clusters and using Swarm Intelligence. A swarm can process more transactions than a single full node.

“This means, if you run a full IOTA node, anyone on the IOTA network can write data to your hard drive with just a small, extremely low cost proof-of-work.” — IOTA was created for the Internet-of-Things with network-bound PoW in mind, the current state of things is temporary.

“Over time, the IOTA transaction set size can grow unbounded, leaving only storage farms with the resources required to host the data.” — This is incorrect even for Bitcoin because of pruning techniques.

“My past experience working at companies that develop hardware products tells me this does not make sense in any other way but a marketing bullet.” — While this thing is likely correct I decided to list it here. IOTA team has experience working at companies developing hardware products too. Even more, I bet your smartphone contains a chip developed by one of our advisors.

“IOTA claims their Ternary-based Proof-of-Work function will work with IOT because it uses minimal power, but I contend that any power usage more significant than signing a transaction is too much because there is another alternative approach.” — As I already said, IOTA will be using network-bound PoW, which will be consuming less energy than required for a transaction signing.

“Contacting a central server run by the company that built the IOT device, announcing the need to submit a transaction at which point the centralized server will submit the transaction on the device’s behalf.” — You described the Internet, not the IoT. Please, refer to “Connectivity” section of https://iot.ieee.org/newsletter/march-2017/three-major-chall..., it explains why you are very wrong.

“In the case of IOTA the client software design intends to kick nodes off the network that do not participate enough, so being even just a passive listener is not an option.” — And again you talk about the Internet, not about the IoT. Googling for reasons of not using IP(v4/v6) should show you the mistake.

I don’t mention insignificant mistakes in your reasoning, all those seem to be caused by the lack of information about IOTA. This is an issue that the IOTA team is working on.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#18
post #3
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

Blockchain + IOT = enough buzzwords to profit off of the greater fool theory.

Also note the extremely flashy web site.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#19

I just copy paste from CfB's response, in case you missed it: Thank you. This article was useful for me, it showed what details of IOTA haven’t been highlighted yet. Below I list incorrect things from the article, if you find time it would be great if you paid more attention to them and shared your thoughts: “IOTA has no limit on transactions and therefore, it has no limit on bandwidth requirements or disk space.” —…

"Swarm Intelligence" - Okay, I stopped there. Can't throw something like that out without a link or commentary.

Getting a decentralized swarm to implement transaction processing is highly non-trivial, especially when (as the OP highlights) incentives are delicate and the entire system must be extremely secure.

Re: Why I find IOTA alarming

#20
post #2

I feel like I'm missing one side of the story. I don't know much about IOTA but from what I learned reading articles linked on HN today IOTA: - Uses custom "ternary" crypto which has been shown to have vulnerabilities in the past. - Has software that doesn't include the basic function of generating wallet addresses, instead having some users rely on shady 3rd party websites and getting their coins stolen. - Does away…

1. There have been no vulnerabilities in the past. Please read: https://blog.iota.org/official-iota-foundation-response-to-t... 2. If people are unable to generate a simple seed (password) on their own. How can they even begin to understand cryptocurrency or even new tech based on IoT? Still, yes it should be in the wallet and it will be added, but only for investors, I guess?! 3. Please read the following from their…

Requiring users to choose a password as a seed for their keys is a catastrophically bad vulnerability. Is that really how IOTA works?
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