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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

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381–390 of 421 posts

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#381
post #8

I always get in a arguments with my EU acquaintances over pain management topics. The idea that is a "good" to suffer with pain instead of taking pain killers is abhorrent to me.

I mostly avoid painkillers, not because I think that pain is "good" but because I think a little bit of pain is simply not worth taking drugs.

My advice is: Unless you're really suffering, try sucking it up for a few days.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#382
post #340
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, Australia prescribes antibiotics like they're candy. I'm always amazed at how easy it is to get a flight of them here.

That's not how I would describe the situation. In America you can buy topical antibiotics at convenience stores, but you get a lecture if you ask for something stronger. Painkillers are prescription only and there's very little stigma for something like Tylenol 3. In Australia you can buy codeine over the counter, but you get a lecture if you ask for something stronger. Antibiotics are prescription only but have no s…

Codeine is prescription only in Australia from 2018-Feb-01. Other crackdowns are being considered; thus my original remark.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#383
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not the case. It is exactly for an US audience important, because the German system is vastly different: universal health care, regulated by the government, 99.9% coverage, run by a system of 100+ insurers and various health care providers. > Social insurance contributions are mandatory Mandatory is to be insured. > based on income in a range, or if one is privately insured one pays based on risk/age Fa…

> Mandatory is to be insured. While I will admit there are varying interpretation, for me, living in the USA, if I am mandated to pay for something, it's a tax. I take it that as a German, working in Germany, I could not "opt out" of all of this and just take my chances?

Car insurance? Most US states do require a minimum level of insurance if you have a car.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I read this story correctly the other day, giving birth to premature twins in the US can max out your $2M insurance cap and leave you with $450k of medical debt to boot: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2018/jan/1... In my own back of the woods in Europe, the same would cost you nothing.

back of the woods in Europe, the same would cost you nothing. Sure, it would be much cheaper when one or more patients doesn't survive in the first place, for example. Keep in mind that story is a donation appeal and is weak in details -- for example, why a healthy mom needs to stay in a $10K/day NNICU private room for months on end is beyond me (would that even be an option in "backwoods Europe"?) The article also m…

> for example, why a healthy mom needs to stay in a $10K/day NNICU private room for months on end is beyond me (would that even be an option in "backwoods Europe"?)

Yes, of course it would. Stop believing the myth that Europe just kills people when they get too ill.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#385
post #21

> "After my surgery, I had to pay 25€ for the taxi ride home" I'll take that over the multi-million US-american hospital bill, any time.

You mean, $30,000 to $40,000, the median cost in the US, nearly all of which would be covered by insurance. No sense in fabricating magical numbers, like a multi-million dollar bill, everyone knows the flaws in the US system as is. It costs about 1/3 to 1/2 as much in Germany, paid for by other tax payers.

> nearly all of which would be covered by insurance.

No, the US government pays almost as much per capita for health care as the German government.

https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-co...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#386

I really wonder how much psychological trick one can play on it's post surgical pain. You know if you're in a blissful happy environment and not a post-butchery waiting room it might change your day from dread to "ok".

It ,ay be hard or impossible to do, but the potential certainly is there. http://theconversation.com/emotions-affect-how-pain-feels-as... : ”Beecher initially wondered whether these war-wounded men were generally insensitive – for chemical or hormonal reasons, for instance. However, this turned out to be untrue since even badly wounded patients who claimed not to be in pain cursed medics who were rough when giving th…

I also think of how one person sees a sensation of mild pain. As a kid, most falls, even harsh at times, don't last in your mind. I remember nasty crash on mountain bikes where we would dust ourselves off, laugh and go. The thrill of the action made the pain very secondary. Even the day after, when the injury would hurt a bit more we wouldn't really complain. Because it's part of the pleasure of trying, achieving.

After a certain point, the brain shifts, we're not in growth, we're in maintenance mode and every problems is void of side value, it's just this, a problem.

Maybe it's also because these are self or externally inflicted sensations, compared to surgery for an internal disease.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#387
post #294
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers? Even if that is the case, pain seems to vary greatly in how it affects people. I would be very hesitant to tell someone that they should just let the pain "guide" them, because I have no idea what it is like for them.

I have a very relevant anecdote: My grandfather was an open-heart surgeon. In the days following surgery, he would always insist that his patients get up and take a short walk. They would not want to, but he insisted that this was an important and valuable part of recovery (in several dimension) and that they needed to push past resistance and force themselves to do it. Later in life, he underwent a surgery requiring…

Note that this is the exact opposite of the advice given in the article: you're told to ignore the pain and take walk, whereas the article states that the pain warns you to not disturb the healing process.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#388
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have had my teeth filled by a dentist that didn't "believe" in novocaine. Luckily, he died before I had any significant issues, and I had a later dentist that did it correctly. If you are doubtful of the usefulness of pain management while receiving a filling, you can try it yourself. I (German) openly prefer it, if the dentist gives the option whether to get a anaesthetic injection or not for dental fillings, no…

> I strongly prefer 5 to 10 somewhat inconvenient minutes over having a numb jaw for a whole day. Is it possible only a minority would consider the pain of a drill into the core of their tooth an inconvenience?

not all procedures are the same. my doctor also asks me if i want anaesthetics - but only if he thinks i can get away without one (i.e. minor work - he wouldn't ask if he expected the operation to last for more than a couple of minutes).

i've also skipped the anaesthetics on occasion without problems, but there were surgeries where this would have been madness where the doctor didn't ask.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#389
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is not illegal in most places, and realistically there is an argument that it should be (at least in public) because you don't have a right to expose other people to your habit. I don't know a single country that has socialized medicine that has illegalized high fat/sugar products or has mandated exercise. If you could point me towards instances where single payer healthcare is being used to outlaw/force such…

Of course they do not make it illegal, they have learned their lesson from prohibitionist policies on drugs, I can not image the horrors of human rights abuse and violence making candy illegal would bring They do however regulate and tax to the extreme, For example, how many restaurants in socialized care nations have free refills on soda? How many places in socialized care nations can you buy candy by the pound with…

> They do however regulate and tax to the extreme, For example, how many restaurants in socialized care nations have free refills on soda? How many places in socialized care nations can you buy candy by the pound with just normal sales tax..

This is some bizarre fantasy. There's no connection to reality in your post.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#390
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to have your teeth drilled as you like. However, if you have a younger family member with more sensitive teeth you may understand that it's not for everyone. Imagine if your child jerked away for just and instant that caused the drill to cause more harm than good. The modern novacaine derivative my dentist uses lasts only about 30-60min after the appointment. Because I was under the age of 18 and he wa…

I had your experience at ages 6-9 in Alaska. The only available dentist had moral qualms about using novocaine. The resulting aversion conditioning kept me away from dentists until I was 36, when my then-girlfriend coerced me to see a dentist. I needed lots of work, all of which was done using novocaine. Pain control is part of good professional medical practice. If a practitioner puts you through gratuitous pain, fi…

> Pain control is part of good professional medical practice. If a practitioner puts you through gratuitous pain, find somebody else.

I he has really "moral qualms" even when asked explicitly, I accept that you better look for another dentist. My claim is rather that it is as a dubious practise to just apply an anaesthetic injection by default.

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