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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#161

Post by danieltillett »

jjeaff wrote: post #138
rincebrain wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a strange bimodal distribution, among people I know - there are those who take preposterous numbers of painkillers on a semi-regular basis, and those who won't take an OTC painkiller except under duress when they're on the edge of blacking out from the pain. I do think a great many people either overprescribe or are overly dependent on painkillers, opioid and otherwise, but there's also many different kinds…

This study showed that a Tylenol ibuprofen combo was as effective as opioids (and with zero chance of addiction). If course it's likely to vary in effectiveness by patient and depend on the type of pain. I can't help but feel that pharmaceutical companies probably don't want a lot more studies like this coming out. https://www.healio.com/family-medicine/pain-management/news/...

This study is so bad I don't know where to start. Apart from its small size, the other major things is there was no ibuprofen control or ibuprofen with codeine control. There is a vast difference in the effectiveness of ibuprofen over acetaminophen.

It is studies like this that have caused us Australians to lose access to OTC codeine this week.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#162

Post by chrisper »

ams6110 wrote: post #114
maxxxxx wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not." That's the case for you but others are more prone to addiction. My girlfriend some years ago had a surgery and got opiates afterward. The pain was gone a after a few days but it took a lot of convincing and almost force to make her stop with the opiates. This stuff is really addictive for some.

It must be. I've had Vicodin a few times, and found it had had no effect other than pain relief. There was no experience of a "high" or euphoria. I have never finished a prescription, as it simply stops occurring to me to take it once the pain is gone.

>I have never finished a prescription, as it simply stops occurring to me to take it once the pain is gone.

I hope you don't do that with antibioticum.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#163

Post by Terretta »

OskarS wrote: post #73
maxxxxx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you buy Ibuprofen in stores or do you need a prescription? In the US most stores have a big aisle with painkillers.

Ibuprofen, paracetamol and acetylsalicylic acid are generally available almost as easily in Europe as in the US.

EU pharmacists want your aspirin to come with megadose vitamin C ... which studies bear out as safer for stomach lining.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#164

Post by iforgotpassword »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

For migraine sufferers, not taking something as it starts to unfold will result in a very unpleasant experience that will take longer to resolve

I had all four wisdom teeth removed at once and all I needed was one ibuprofen the first night, but a fucking migraine and I need at least one, sometimes two.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#165

Post by eropple »

danieltillett wrote: post #161
jjeaff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study showed that a Tylenol ibuprofen combo was as effective as opioids (and with zero chance of addiction). If course it's likely to vary in effectiveness by patient and depend on the type of pain. I can't help but feel that pharmaceutical companies probably don't want a lot more studies like this coming out. https://www.healio.com/family-medicine/pain-management/news/...

This study is so bad I don't know where to start. Apart from its small size, the other major things is there was no ibuprofen control or ibuprofen with codeine control. There is a vast difference in the effectiveness of ibuprofen over acetaminophen. It is studies like this that have caused us Australians to lose access to OTC codeine this week.

Is there a compelling reason for codeine to be OTC in the first place? It's an addictive opiate.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#166

Post by iforgotpassword »

stevebmark wrote: post #129

> I didn’t mention that I use ibuprofen like candy Never, ever become like this person. Do not make a habit out of taking ibuprofen and assuming it's benign. If you have to take painkillers every day to function then something else is wrong and you need to address that. NSAIDs alter chemical production in your body and over the long term can cause permanent damage.

Can't really tell if this part was sarcasm, especially the children's cough sirup that makes sleepy. Is this a thing!?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#167

Post by vanderZwan »

jjeaff wrote: post #136
dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers? Even if that is the case, pain seems to vary greatly in how it affects people. I would be very hesitant to tell someone that they should just let the pain "guide" them, because I have no idea what it is like for them.

> I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers?

Since when is that a requirement for knowing what is best for your patients? The doctor is basing their judgement on current consensus within their field, which hopefully involves careful studies.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#168

Post by woolvalley »

nosickdays wrote: post #97
HarryHirsch wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people experiencing legitimate pain are becoming casualties of our crackdown on "inappropriate" prescribing. Perhaps in America they are so easy with the opiates because people have a real or perceived need to get back to work. When I had to have two impacted wisdom teeth removed the pain and swelling was completely under control with ice bags, aspirin and two days off work. A low wage at-will worker in the US can't…

This is a rather salient point. In the Netherlands, if I needed (in consultation with my doctor, of course) to stay out of work for a year to recuperate from illness or injury, I can do that and continue to receive my full salary. The second year would be at 70% salary. My job would await my return - only after 2 years would I be separated from my employer and have access to other long-term disability benefits. In th…

Who is paying for that 1 years salary?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#169

Post by selectodude »

maxxxxx wrote: post #131
ams6110 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be. I've had Vicodin a few times, and found it had had no effect other than pain relief. There was no experience of a "high" or euphoria. I have never finished a prescription, as it simply stops occurring to me to take it once the pain is gone.

I got Vicodin and felt really good. Never slept that well before or after but I am not prone to addiction and stopped taking it without problem.

I abused vicodin, taking 40-50mg of hydrocodone at a time explicitly to get high. Once I ran out, I shrugged my shoulders and that was the end of it.

Some people have addictive personalities. Some don't. I don't discount people turning into heroin addicts from the stuff. It's my favorite drug in the world.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#170

Post by Retric »

Peradine wrote: post #153
Retric wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the average american uses that many pain pills. OTC pain pills are a ~4 billion dollar industry. There are 320 million people so that's ~1$ / month in pain pill per person. And that's including both stuff that goes bad and is never used and daily Aspirin taken for cardiac health. https://www.chpa.org/OTCsCategory.aspx 5% of the population does take daily pain medication. At the same time it's common to…

Approximately 80 percent of the global opioid supply is consumed in the United States, which represents only 5 percent of the global population "There was about 300 million pain prescriptions written in 2015," https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all...

OTC = over the counter. There was a huge spike in prescription pain medications which has steadly declined over time.

While 2017 numbers are not in. 2016 Prescription pain medications are down 6% from 2015 and down 18% from 2012. https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/maps/rxrate-maps.html

And again, we are talking less than one prescription per year per person on average. With many of these prescriptions for 2-3 days worth of pain management. Though again, a minority of people get a lot of pain medication.

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