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I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

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Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#71
post #38

I think High Sierra is the worst Mac OS release yet. I’m sure there’s a cognitive bias partially to blame (since it’s the most recent) but it looks like we are way past that.

The mach kernels in general are buggy, regardless of the release. e.g. I'm pretty sure they end up delivering SIGPIPE to the wrong thread in some circumstances on Sierra. There is also a problem with recvmsg not returning control messages some time. Another reason they killed OS X Server maybe.

They killed server because that was a losing battle: Apple was never going to "win" at servers. Despite all their effort they managed to score only a few modest wins, and the intense competition in that space made it a huge distraction.

Remember Apple started down the "server" road decades ago with their A/UX UNIX server (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/UX). Throughout the 1990s you could get a high-end Mac spec'd as a UNIX machine if you wanted, though I've only ever seen a handful in the wild.

The introduction of a special-purpose server was an anomaly, the Xserve had no specific predecessor, perhaps some kind of "go big or go home" effort on Apple's part.

While that system wasn't bad by the standards of the time, it couldn't compete with the likes of Dell, HP and others who offered way more flexibility on configuration and who would seemingly sell super budget low-end servers at a loss to lock people into their product line so they can squeeze them on support costs, a model Apple's allergic to.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#72
post #83

I've edited 'he' to 'she' in the two otherwise fine comments that made this mistake ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16251566 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16251562 ) and grouped several empty replies and one lame off-topic subthread under this one. It's rare that we do something like this (and I've emailed the author), but it seems fairer than to penalize their original posts, which were otherwise i…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#73

What version of macOS are you running with?

I'm the initial bug reporter. This machine is on 10.13.3.

I don't even use a mac but I've heard terrible things about High Sierra, is it really that bad?

Seems like they pushed a bunch of substantial changes to the kernel.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#74
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found OS X to be incredibly buggy at release. I think 10.2 was fairly stable, but I had a lot of issues before that.

Agreed. 10.2 was the first OS X release that felt usable day-to-day without running into too many bugs, annoyingly missing features, or frustrating UI decisions. 10.4 felt like the first version that was a pleasure to use. It felt like the polish had finally caught up with OS 9.

IMO, 10.6 was still the best release. Wish they would do another “no new features” release one of these years.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Software has bugs. Operating systems are hard. Sure, but it doesn't help when you are rewriting fundamental parts of the stack like the window server, for instance. And I'm very glad that they did, the move to Metal shows they are committed to the Mac and not standing still. Just don't treat us as involuntary beta testers.

Except their window system rewrite actually slowed everything down. Every single os release has added bugs to the graphics layer. I've been maintaining a simple little screensaver since Mac os beta (almost 20 years old now) and the last 3 or 4 releases there's always something that breaks it. Bug reports go unheeded.

May I ask which screen saver?

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#76
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the initial bug reporter. This machine is on 10.13.3.

I don't even use a mac but I've heard terrible things about High Sierra, is it really that bad? Seems like they pushed a bunch of substantial changes to the kernel.

It's not bad, nothing's a show-stopper, there's just several little annoyances and embarrassing security issues.

My example is that there's an empty blank line in the bottom of about half of my terminal sessions. I haven't looked into it, and I assume it'll disappear in a future point release.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#77
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is right. I fill in the fields, then submit the change and nothing happens and it jumps back to DHCP. Always have to just edit the network settings manually.

Sorry, but Ubuntu and Gnome NetworkManager issues do not equate to issues with Linux. They are very distro and window manager specific.

Not sure why your comment is grayed out. This is very much true, and part of the reason I run CentOS when I want infrastructure to work 24/7/365, but eg Fedora for testing new software.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#78
post #20

Sounds very similar to https://github.com/hishamhm/htop/issues/682

Wanted to point out the same. It’s time for apple to fix something here. Not sure if I like the idea to work with timeouts in code just to prevent the bug from happening.

Timers in general are a code smell to me. It’s one thing if you’re waiting for something to complete, but having arbitrary sleeps in your program is undesirable IMO. It makes reasoning about your program more difficult.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#79
post #53
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank goodness that Linux is consistent and has no bugs :-) Ubuntu still doesn't let me change my IP address to a static one via the UI and video drivers still crash or result in hours of googling and reading contradicting articles on how to change xorg.conf Software has bugs. Operating systems are hard. It doesn't matter where you will go, you will most likely deal with similar issues. Whether it be Linux, Windows o…

The difference is you pay a huge premium for Apple products, Linux distros are generally free (unless you want enterprise-style support). The same criticism applies to Windows - give it away for free and I might care less about crashes and the huge slide in quality over the last ~5 years.

I'm happy to pay a premium to never again have to deal with xorg.conf. All platforms come with a cost.

Re: I think I found a Mac kernel bug?

#80
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualitatively, it feels like apple’s software quality has been on a slide for several years. What attracted me to move to Mac OS in the first place some 15 years ago was the sheer quality. It was thrilling to use a computer that Just Worked, with no BSODs or the endless dependency hell that was Linux at the time. It doesn’t feel like that any more, across either OSX or iOS - it feels fragile. Things crash, behaviours…

Thank goodness that Linux is consistent and has no bugs :-) Ubuntu still doesn't let me change my IP address to a static one via the UI and video drivers still crash or result in hours of googling and reading contradicting articles on how to change xorg.conf Software has bugs. Operating systems are hard. It doesn't matter where you will go, you will most likely deal with similar issues. Whether it be Linux, Windows o…

Re Ubuntu and docs, this something where I find CentOS valuable: it moves slowly but is very stable. I’ve never seen network issues on CentOS on cli or GUI. Red hat also puts out great comprehensive docs so you don’t have to dredge the forums.
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