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Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

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Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#61

Post by davidw »

microtonal wrote: post #53
montrose wrote: post #50

Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that because Trump is president, he shares less with the US: "AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President." The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty st…

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information. If this is really true: As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused gr…

I think he's implicitly saying that Trump is a Russian asset.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#62

Post by montrose »

davidw wrote: post #61
microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information. If this is really true: As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused gr…

I think he's implicitly saying that Trump is a Russian asset.

Whoah. I wonder if that's what he meant. It's so mind-bending that there's a chance you're right.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#63

Post by StanislavPetrov »

jacquesm wrote: post #40
GVIrish wrote: post #39

This revelation brings a lot of things into focus for me. One, is that it finally sheds light onto that very large and disruptive attack on State Dept back in 2014. It was assumed it was a state actor, and now we know it was Russia. Secondly is how important our allies are in this new era of clandestine cyber-warfare. Who knows how much damage that attack could've done without AIVD's assistance. Third is that allied…

You have no idea how much damage the Trump administration has done to America's relations abroad.

Our many illegal wars, global campaign of drone assassinations, black sites and torture camps destroyed our reputation among everyone with a shred of awareness and morality long before Trump came along.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#64

Post by davidw »

montrose wrote: post #62
davidw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's implicitly saying that Trump is a Russian asset.

Whoah. I wonder if that's what he meant. It's so mind-bending that there's a chance you're right.

Look at the whole Stormy Daniels thing: I don't so much care that he has no class, but he tried to cover it up and paid hush money.

Stormy Daniels had leverage on Trump, but didn't really seem to do much with it; she was fine with a payout. What would happen, on the other hand, if a hostile intelligence agency got some more salacious or more incriminating (money laundering, say) leverage on him?

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#65

Post by mi100hael »

I'm curious about timelines here. This article states the Dutch notified the US of the intrusions in the summer of 2015, but a lot of emails leaked were from 2016. Either the 2016 emails were from a separate hack or the Russians were inexplicably allowed to continue to operate for a full year.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#66

Post by n0tme »

gandhium wrote: post #38
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I wonder if the US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too. I mean that was an actual act of physical aggression by the Russians where citizens died - something that hasn't happened between Russia and the US, well, ever.

> US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too. As I can remember US told the world that it MH-17 was shot by a missile (not Ukrainian jet, as Russia tried to imply for months) and most probably Russian missile - and all of it almost immediately after the tragedy.

As much as I hate Russian government, I can't believe the mh17 was shot on purpose. It was probably a mistake. Probably some people were in power where they should never be. Unfortunately, it looks like the next 6 years there wouldn't be any significant change in Russian government.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#67

Post by ThomPete »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #56
ThomPete wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he alert the public? Why not just deal with it internally? But i can see that this discussion is already getting toxic with the amount of downvotes so whatevs.

By that point the US was actively seeing known Russian attempts to penetrate various electoral systems. He probably would have had to call for a delay of the election or something equally drastic. You can imagine the uproar that would follow. Shortly after the election the US expelled 35 diplomats and shuttered a Russian-owned compound. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama... That, and the FBI…

The point is the tying to Trump which seems absurd now. Anyway im getting downvoted for even suggesting this and dont want to give the people who cant argue their case more opportunities than this.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#68

Post by cies »

jacquesm wrote: post #15
cies wrote: post #8

I'm I the only one who does not believe a word any intel agency says? Paid liars. They better not at all talk to the public that they "vow to protect" (my ass). We need more leakers, they, IMHO, show more truth: that they are paid (by us the people) liars.

> I'm I the only one who does not believe a word any intel agency says? Which words in particular do you not believe? If an intel agency tells you they are gathering intel on geopolitical adversaries that sounds pretty plausible to me. And in this case there seems to be plenty of corroboration from other sources - not that that should have ever happened.

> Which words in particular do you not believe?

For instance this:

> Rob Bertholee, head of AIVD, said that he had no doubt that the Kremlin was directly responsible for the Russian cyber campaign against U.S. government agencies.

I believe non of it. Intel big shot sais "said that he had no doubt", I think: "your a professional and tax paid liar, I do not believe you sir!"

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#69

Post by jacquesm »

cies wrote: post #68
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm I the only one who does not believe a word any intel agency says? Which words in particular do you not believe? If an intel agency tells you they are gathering intel on geopolitical adversaries that sounds pretty plausible to me. And in this case there seems to be plenty of corroboration from other sources - not that that should have ever happened.

> Which words in particular do you not believe? For instance this: > Rob Bertholee, head of AIVD, said that he had no doubt that the Kremlin was directly responsible for the Russian cyber campaign against U.S. government agencies. I believe non of it. Intel big shot sais "said that he had no doubt", I think: "your a professional and tax paid liar, I do not believe you sir!"

Well, that gives the Kremlin a free pass to do whatever they want in your book because no statement from anybody - especially not those who are in a position to evaluate the evidence - would be acceptable.

That's a rather high standard you are upholding there, so high that it is unusable.

To turn this around: what other state actor would you posit has stakes as high as Russia in order to attempt to get US government agencies taken down a notch or two?

And, finally: what level of evidence presented by who would be enough to convince you this actually happened?

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#70

Post by the_why_of_y »

exabrial wrote: post #49

I still don't understand this analysis: https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-met... Which points to a USB transfer. Or I'm guessing there were multiple hacks?

This article is based on the assumption that the internet is slower than it measurably is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14998421

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