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The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

nytimes.com

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Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#141

Post by randomdata »

_m8fo wrote: post #129
moduspol wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is being missed here. In an inherent sense , humans start with nothing. We (as a society) have hospitals available which greatly decrease infant mortality. We have widely available nutrition that keeps people from starving. These are steps that we, as a society, have taken to improve upon the default state (having nothing) of humans--including fetal health. Perhaps rather than focusing on how to mak…

In no sense do people start off with nothing. People start off with the abilities or lack thereof possessed at birth. Compare a child with fetal alcohol syndrome with one without it. Do both start off with nothing? No. Clearly one has something the other does not. Why do people insist on believing nonsense?

This discussion is specially about wealth. Fetal alcohol syndrome is not usually added as a liability on a balance sheet, even if it is liability to everyday living. Everyone starts with a balance of $0.

> Why do people insist on believing nonsense?

Why are people trying to twist this discussion into things it never was?

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#142

Post by adamc »

Leader2light wrote: post #106
Retric wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am for immigration, it's just the pseudo indentured servitude that is H1B that I have a problem with. As to factory outsourcing, I think it's overall a net gain for humanity. Long term there is a finite number of countries and barring societal collapse eventually they will all end up 'developed'. It simply exposes other problems in the US like our horrible social safety net and endemic corruption. So, a small ~2-5%…

What does it even mean any more to be "for immigration"! At what point do you feel the USA will have enough immigrants? It's already a nation of immigrants!

I am for free travel and work across "national" boundaries. That means I think the U.S. should be welcoming to others, and we should try to work out deals where our citizens can work abroad.

I believe that the best way to avoid war is to invite everyone to the table, help everyone get richer, do better, be more invested in a peaceful world. In the modern world, war is a nightmare solution.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#143

Post by jachee »

bpicolo wrote: post #86
odonnellryan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

Berkeley has a tent community dead in the middle of downtown on some government property. Berkeley's homeless problem is really front-and-center. The otherwise nice parks in the area are pretty unusable.

I'd argue that if they're serving the poor, they're not unusable, they're being used to the greater good.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#144

Post by simonsarris »

woodruffw wrote: post #130
xya3453 wrote: post #99

> Beyond that, many Americans, especially whites with no more than a high school education, have seen worsening health: As my research with my wife, the Princeton economist Anne Case, has demonstrated, for this group life expectancy is falling; mortality rates from drugs, alcohol and suicide are rising Yet in 2018, most diversity initiatives still focus on race regardless of socio-economic background.

Here we go again. Race correlates strongly with socioeconomic background. Insofar as diversity initiatives are actually attempting to improve the lives of disadvantaged people in this country, arguments like yours amount to relative privation. Heart disease kills more people than lung cancer, but there's nothing wrong with raising money to research lung cancer.

> Race correlates strongly with socioeconomic background.

Yeah all he's saying is that socioeconomic background correlates even more strongly with socioeconomic background. And keeping it in economic terms has the additional plus of keeping the correlation consistent as times change.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#145

Post by [deleted] »

woodruffw wrote: post #130
xya3453 wrote: post #99

> Beyond that, many Americans, especially whites with no more than a high school education, have seen worsening health: As my research with my wife, the Princeton economist Anne Case, has demonstrated, for this group life expectancy is falling; mortality rates from drugs, alcohol and suicide are rising Yet in 2018, most diversity initiatives still focus on race regardless of socio-economic background.

Here we go again. Race correlates strongly with socioeconomic background. Insofar as diversity initiatives are actually attempting to improve the lives of disadvantaged people in this country, arguments like yours amount to relative privation. Heart disease kills more people than lung cancer, but there's nothing wrong with raising money to research lung cancer.

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#146

Post by _m8fo »

randomdata wrote: post #141
_m8fo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no sense do people start off with nothing. People start off with the abilities or lack thereof possessed at birth. Compare a child with fetal alcohol syndrome with one without it. Do both start off with nothing? No. Clearly one has something the other does not. Why do people insist on believing nonsense?

This discussion is specially about wealth. Fetal alcohol syndrome is not usually added as a liability on a balance sheet, even if it is liability to everyday living. Everyone starts with a balance of $0. > Why do people insist on believing nonsense? Why are people trying to twist this discussion into things it never was?

Nothing is being twisted. If what you mean is that two babies have the same amount of money in their bank accounts, then that's what you should say. Of course, if one said that they would be ignored as that much is obvious.

What you should not say is that "they both start off with nothing". Wealth is more than money. In fact, wealth literally just means an abundance of possessions; prosperity. What dictionary are you using that says wealth is only measured by dollars in a bank account?

By the way, the article specifically mentions health, so...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#147

Post by workthrowaway27 »

sp332 wrote: post #132
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This isn't a contest. Isn't it though? I mean to a certain extent policy and even corporate 'diversity initiatives' are a matter of priority - first we even the ground for women, then minorities, then maybe gender id is next? I don't see the Ivy League rushing to ensure that their campus maintains wealth-diversity in the same way they ensure racial diversity. Maybe we really do need an Oppression Olympics, then we c…

I think the point is to get rid of the hierarchy altogether. If you don't have a system of oppression, you don't need to argue over who to point it at.

You can't get rid of hierarchy. It's a natural part of human relationships and how humans organize themselves into societies. To think otherwise is absurd.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#148

Post by UncleEntity »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #98
mschuster91 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One death is a tragedy, but it's not a massively systematic problem unless we act like it is and turn it into one. It is a systematic problem. 150 incidents between 1993 and 2017, an average of 6 terrorist incidents a year or once every two months. 255 people died, 603 people were injured. Source: https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/dark-constan... Note: this is just the violence that got counted as ter…

It is a problem, but not the way you are exaggerating it to be. You act as if there is a nazi army ready to march on the nation, but that's not happening. We do have pockets of bigots and racists and god knows what else, but they don't have huge bases of support unless we act like they do. Nazis want to feel important, they want people to get riled up and fight them. That's what the actual nazis did. ordinary Nazi ru…

Basically, from what I can tell, nazi is anyone with an opposing viewpoint.

I would also posit the majority of recent political violence is from the Antifa folks who believe they can shutdown their opponents through pure and simple violence.

In fact there was one act of violence attributed to all the "tea party" protests during the Obama era and that was instigated by an anti-tea party person.

For two generations political protests were virtually 100% violence-free until the current crop of kids took to the streets with their anti- trump activities.

Makes me sad really...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#149

Post by vec »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #113
wbl wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Bubba live a better life then Liu Chu just because he was born in one country and Liu Chu another? Globalization has reduced extreme poverty worldwide, to the point where it will not exist in a few years. Globalization has very little to do with the plights of blacks in the Mississippi Delta. Old fashioned racism and a lack of jobs in sectors which aren't agriculture have a lot more to do with it.

Well Bubba has no more right to a good life than Liu Chu but if you live next door to Bubba and 7000 miles from Liu Chu I think you have a higher duty to him than her. Second, you could consider that Bubba has the ability to vote in US elections and Liu Chu doesn't. Making Liu Chu better off is a nice moral deed, making Bubba better off is not just a nice moral deed but also a political obligation.

Bubba can vote, so he's able to represent his own interests. Liu Chu has no voice in the system.

It seems to me that if I have any obligation it would be to advocate for those that cannot advocate for themselves first.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#150

Post by badwulf »

woodruffw wrote: post #130
xya3453 wrote: post #99

> Beyond that, many Americans, especially whites with no more than a high school education, have seen worsening health: As my research with my wife, the Princeton economist Anne Case, has demonstrated, for this group life expectancy is falling; mortality rates from drugs, alcohol and suicide are rising Yet in 2018, most diversity initiatives still focus on race regardless of socio-economic background.

Here we go again. Race correlates strongly with socioeconomic background. Insofar as diversity initiatives are actually attempting to improve the lives of disadvantaged people in this country, arguments like yours amount to relative privation. Heart disease kills more people than lung cancer, but there's nothing wrong with raising money to research lung cancer.

> Race correlates strongly with socioeconomic background.

If it correlates strongly, then why not just ignore race and look at socioeconomic background instead?

> disadvantaged people in this country

They are helping only a specific subset of "disadvantaged people in this country".

> Heart disease kills more people than lung cancer, but there's nothing wrong with raising money to research lung cancer.

A better analogy would be: smoking increases your chance for cancer, instead of saying smoking is bad in general you say that certain cigarette brands are bad.

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