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The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

nytimes.com

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Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#111

Post by randomdata »

_m8fo wrote: post #104
randomdata wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that we're talking about wealth – something that you measure on a balance sheet – is fetal health something that should be included? My experience with accounting says no, but I'm not a professional accountant. Perhaps you have misunderstood this discussion?

If you don't think the health of the fetus, and subsequently the child and adult has anything to do with poverty then I dunno what I tell ya.

While I understand how the health of the fetus relates to poverty, I fail to see how that has anything to do with this particular discussion? We are talking about how everyone starts with nothing. The balance sheet of all brand new people to world always starts empty.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#112

Post by ska »

11_4_time wrote: post #49
xorfish wrote: post #19

So what do Switzerland, Germany and Iceland better than the rest of the developed nations?

They haven't had decades of sustained mass immigration of low-skilled workers.

This is both factually inaccurate and tendentious in implication.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#113

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

wbl wrote: post #87
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

Why should Bubba live a better life then Liu Chu just because he was born in one country and Liu Chu another? Globalization has reduced extreme poverty worldwide, to the point where it will not exist in a few years. Globalization has very little to do with the plights of blacks in the Mississippi Delta. Old fashioned racism and a lack of jobs in sectors which aren't agriculture have a lot more to do with it.

Well Bubba has no more right to a good life than Liu Chu but if you live next door to Bubba and 7000 miles from Liu Chu I think you have a higher duty to him than her.

Second, you could consider that Bubba has the ability to vote in US elections and Liu Chu doesn't. Making Liu Chu better off is a nice moral deed, making Bubba better off is not just a nice moral deed but also a political obligation.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#115

Post by _m8fo »

randomdata wrote: post #111
_m8fo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't think the health of the fetus, and subsequently the child and adult has anything to do with poverty then I dunno what I tell ya.

While I understand how the health of the fetus relates to poverty, I fail to see how that has anything to do with this particular discussion? We are talking about how everyone starts with nothing. The balance sheet of all brand new people to world always starts empty.

You're missing the point. Saying everyone starts off with a blank slate is like saying everyone born starts off alive. It's a useless statement. The point is that the quality of life upon birth is different. Said qualities result in the discrepancies you see today.

EDIT:

Furthermore, originally you stated:

> The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing

It's already been illustrated this is false. If you believe quality of life at birth is different, then by definition, everyone does not start off with nothing, or zero. People start off with the qualities possessed at birth.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#116

Post by bradleyjg »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #95
bradleyjg wrote: post #88

According to the World Bank, 769 million people lived on less than $1.90 a day in 2013; they are the world’s very poorest. Of these, 3.2 million live in the United States, and 3.3 million in other high-income countries (most in Italy, Japan and Spain). I tried to track down this factoid. First I went to the world bank: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.DDAY?locations=U... which does show 1% for the US. In t…

If the consumption comes from a market, then sure. But during the Depression, millions of rural Americans lived on $0 for years. Kitchen garden, a cow, a pig, some chickens and there you are. So point is, maybe dollars aren't tracking what we think they're tracking?

The world bank attempts to measure consumption from all sources, not just those that result from market transactions. Which is a very good reason why it is inappropriate to source a number for the US from a survey that doesn't attempt to measure consumption that way.

I understand that the US isn't the primary focus of the project, nor should it be, but in the absence of good data it would be better to put N/A as it did for several other countries, rather than a misleading statistic.

There's some good information on measuring consumption starting on page 91 here: http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/452741468778781879...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#117

Post by xienze »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

What I don’t understand are the people who simultaneously complain about poverty in America and see absolutely no reason to apply any kind of standards for the people emigrating to this country (like, “must have an advanced degree”), or even any kind of limits on immigration at all. We are undoubtedly importing more people destined to live in poverty. Save me the rhetoric about every immigrant being a future doctor or engineer, yes there are many success stories but there are also plenty that end up being net drains on society due to, well, not being skilled workers.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#118

Post by [deleted] »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#119

Post by tangent128 »

randomdata wrote: post #83
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing. This is clearly wrong.

I struggle to see what is inherently bestowed upon a new born child beyond life itself? The child may eventually be given things, but that's not the same thing as what we are talking about. Some examples of how it is clearly wrong would be useful, because there is nothing clear about it to me.

If the question is "why some are able to flourish, while others continue with nothing indefinitely", then the fact that some children are given $millions in liquid assets where others are lucky to be given food and clothing would certainly seen germane.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#120

Post by natoliniak »

bcatanzaro wrote: post #17

I don’t understand how this is possible. We have a lot of programs to help people - food assistance, housing and health care assistance, disability... Are these benefits being counted when we say they live on $4/day?

There are time limits on how long certain benefits can be taken advantage of (and work requirements in certain cases). Housing assistance has long wait lists and federal health care assistance (medicaid/medicare) has a ton of age/health restrictions.
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