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The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

nytimes.com

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Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#51

Post by maxerickson »

mrarjen wrote: post #28
odonnellryan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

Yea, I read that most homeless seem to head to CA because it's where the money is... Here in NL we have some homeless, but also lots of government systems in place to offer housing and incentives to possibly work or get schooling. In the end this is actually cheaper, as to prevent crime and what not. Not sure how this would work in the US.

About 60 million Americans receive some federal assistance.

A slightly larger number get healthcare from Medicaid.

The assistance is not a large amount per month, but it is there.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#52

Post by ch4s3 »

Retric wrote: post #46
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

I am for immigration, it's just the pseudo indentured servitude that is H1B that I have a problem with. As to factory outsourcing, I think it's overall a net gain for humanity. Long term there is a finite number of countries and barring societal collapse eventually they will all end up 'developed'. It simply exposes other problems in the US like our horrible social safety net and endemic corruption. So, a small ~2-5%…

I agree. I know a number of H1B who would like to start their own companies, but obviously can't because of the visa requirements.

The system is almost designed intentionally to allow the abuse of workers.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#53

Post by guihvvv »

jschwartzi wrote: post #36
bcatanzaro wrote: post #17

I don’t understand how this is possible. We have a lot of programs to help people - food assistance, housing and health care assistance, disability... Are these benefits being counted when we say they live on $4/day?

These benefits are inaccessible without a long trip through some really Byzantine application processes where nobody is actually incentivized to help you. These processes ostensibly exist to block freeloaders but they also serve to prevent the needy from accessing the resource too.

I readily critize our grotesque engorged bureaucracy, but getting food stamps isn't difficult, as exibited by the 40+ million people who take advantage of them, and by personal anecdotal evidence.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#54

Post by e40 »

dictum wrote: post #43
odonnellryan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

To wahsd (dead comment): I get your point, but you should ask if the people are poor because they vote Democrat, or they vote Democrat because they're poor (and see themselves better represented by the Democrat platform)? Maybe not even/just poor, but excluded from local economy/politics due to race, gender, ethnicity, not being a member of the old boys' club, etc.

We've all seen the articles about Republican controlled cities putting homeless people on buses for Berkeley and other destinations in CA. wahsd is clueless.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#56

Post by xya3453 »

brohee wrote: post #29
wildmusings wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police fighting a class war? The vast majority of those 1000 deaths are unambiguously from the justified use of force, in self-defense and the defense of others. Believe it or not, there’s a lot of violent and bad people out there.

There are countless youtube videos of police arresting violent individuals in Europe where they would just be gunned down in the US. If you want another comparaison, look up dog shooting in the US and in Europe, unless you really believe dogs are somewhat more dangerous in the US, the inescapable conclusion is that American cops enjoy the power trip of gunning down living creatures... And why shouldn't they, it's alm…

Or taking Hanlon's razor, Americian cops have been institutionalised to use force, almost as if they're operating in a country with more guns than citizens (unlike anywhere in Europe, or the world for that matter).

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#57

Post by SauciestGNU »

randomdata wrote: post #26
sevensor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being poor is not a good/bad thing This is a silly line of reasoning. As more people grow wealthy, we find more ways to systematically mistreat those who have not. It's not just that the poor started poor and stayed that way, it's that the rest of us find ways to make things even harder for them as our comparative wealth grows. Being poor is most definitely a bad thing.

The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing. The parent questions why some are able to flourish, while others continue with nothing indefinitely.

People start with extremely unequal circumstances. Social mobility is low and those born with wealth will keep it and those born without are unlikely to ever attain it. This platonic ideal where everyone starts on equal footing and some people are just better than others at accumulating wealth is absurd.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#58

Post by SolaceQuantum »

mrarjen wrote: post #28
odonnellryan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

Yea, I read that most homeless seem to head to CA because it's where the money is... Here in NL we have some homeless, but also lots of government systems in place to offer housing and incentives to possibly work or get schooling. In the end this is actually cheaper, as to prevent crime and what not. Not sure how this would work in the US.

Utah simply housed their homeless and it was cheaper because homeless people were no longer using emergency services for basic healthcare among other things[1]/

1. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#59

Post by ivankirigin »

I welcome an absolute definition of poverty. We talk about the richest and poorest quintiles much more often, which is worse than a moving target. There will always be a lowest quintile. The cynic in me thinks this is a job protection program for those working in poverty reduction.

I wish we had more science here. The linked research points to the 1995 welfare reforms as causing a change. The way to prove effectiveness is with a well run trial - one that changes in federal policy make impossible.

Economic growth (or stagnation) is also crucial here to lower poverty rates. But all of macroeconomics suffers from the same basic measurement problem. Restated: what anti poverty program did hundreds of millions of Indian and Chinese families since 1995 participate in?

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#60

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

mikejb wrote: post #22
balthasar wrote: post #2

Americans are slowly becoming more radical as a reaction to economic pressures. With each side's policies alien to the other, compromise becomes impossible. Eventually one side will have to win out and then things will get very interesting.

Interesting isn't the word I'd use, but I understand what you mean. I really hope that a third party will start to grow. Whilst it may have benefits, I think the two-party-system feeds a lot into the "with me or against me" concept.

> I really hope that a third party will start to grow.

Third parties don’t thrive in countries with first-past-the-post voting and without a tradition of coalition-making. In order for the USA to reach a point where it could have more than a two-party system, it would have to completely remake its governmental structure, and “very interesting” is an appropriate euphemism for what things would be like if it ever came to that.

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