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The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

nytimes.com

11–20 of 238 posts

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#11
post #5

Poverty is not a problem. It is the default state. Instead of asking what causes poverty, we need to ask what causes wealth. We also need to realize that being poor is not a good/bad thing. Again, it's the default state.

The default state is that of a subsistence farmer being regularly preyed on by bandits. Without society, without the apparatus and knowledge bequeathed to us by those who came before us, that would be the fate of everybody, including Bill Gates.

We get our wealth by standing on the shoulders of giants. The poor deserve the fruits of the labors of those giants just as much as the rest of us do.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#12
post #5

Poverty is not a problem. It is the default state. Instead of asking what causes poverty, we need to ask what causes wealth. We also need to realize that being poor is not a good/bad thing. Again, it's the default state.

If you mean that we should do away with wealth, then yes I agree we should "figure out what causes wealth" even though I'm sure we already have a small idea, at least!

I think a lot of Star Trek fans share this fantasy... but what makes it impossible?

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#13
post #5

Poverty is not a problem. It is the default state. Instead of asking what causes poverty, we need to ask what causes wealth. We also need to realize that being poor is not a good/bad thing. Again, it's the default state.

> being poor is not a good/bad thing

This is a silly line of reasoning. As more people grow wealthy, we find more ways to systematically mistreat those who have not. It's not just that the poor started poor and stayed that way, it's that the rest of us find ways to make things even harder for them as our comparative wealth grows. Being poor is most definitely a bad thing.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#14

This video from Anaheim (California) is reminiscent of travelling around Dehli (from 39' in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk ). The level/amount of poverty in this video is shocking.

Probably worse in CA, but this exists on some level in every state. Here in NJ we have the same exact thing, just not along a bike path.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#15
post #5

Poverty is not a problem. It is the default state. Instead of asking what causes poverty, we need to ask what causes wealth. We also need to realize that being poor is not a good/bad thing. Again, it's the default state.

Poverty is definitely a problem. Having to choose between eating and running the heater on a cold night is not a “default state” in the US, nor should it be anywhere else. I’ve personally had enough of those nights and experienced the gaumut of unpleasantries when living on $40 per day in a temperate (albeit more expensive) city, both when growing up and again during the downturn as a freshly minted adult.

I can’t imagine how much worse the people in the articles have it at 1/10th the income in a harsher climate.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#16
post #5

Poverty is not a problem. It is the default state. Instead of asking what causes poverty, we need to ask what causes wealth. We also need to realize that being poor is not a good/bad thing. Again, it's the default state.

There is no 'default' state, poverty or not and being poor is definitely bad. Think like this: if we could make everyone not poor tomorrow, would that be a good thing? Of course (holding all else the same.)

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#18
The most bizarre aspect of it is that the very same people that lament that fact, are also the ones who support all its causes and throw the most violent tantrums to scuttle improving the situation. We have tried it their way for decade after decade after decade, and the astronomical cost has only led to barely measurable improvements at wild cost/benefit ratios, while being unsustainable on their own essentially everywhere those measures are not artificially scaffolded and have heavy layers of spin and blatant propaganda lies applied to it.

Maybe the worst part of it is that those very people don't even understand that they are doing any of that because they have been manipulated and lied to about both the causes and solutions as they have ever increasingly been drawn into a cult in which up is down, left is right, and only the con job leaders benefit from it. When you have fixed, preconceived notions about outcomes, don't be surprised that you cannot achieve them with the existing variables. You end up having to bend and manipulate and rig and patch things ever increasingly and more bizarrely in order to maintain the desired end state or outcome that the system becomes ever more unstable and fragile. See the mid aughts housing fraud, aka, housing bubble for reference. The conclusion was that house prices can only go up, so everything was subsequently rigged through self-perpetuating incentives to support that fixed assumed outcome. Precisely what keeps us repeatedly doing the things that have no effect on the desired outcome. But at least it supports a huge non-profit industry complex that perpetuates itself under the guise of "helping" .... itself to your money.

It's quite frustrating that in spite of the truth and solution being right before our eyes, because truth and reality is too inconvenient and difficult and uncomfortable because it does not fit with preconceived conclusions and assumptions, we simply want to ignore reality and substituted our own. And so goes the perpetual poverty "problem" that we are seeking "solutions" for. Organizations can't even move away from Microsoft products simply because they get money from the Gates foundation ... and we want to solve poverty? It's a bad joke.

As someone has said, our "help" and development money is taking money from poor American children, in order to give it to rich Africans ... who then scurry it away into offshore bank accounts.

I know this may make some arteries pop, but the President of Uganda puts it well: http://thehill.com/policy/international/370435-ugandan-presi...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#20

Americans are slowly becoming more radical as a reaction to economic pressures. With each side's policies alien to the other, compromise becomes impossible. Eventually one side will have to win out and then things will get very interesting.

> Eventually one side will have to win out and then things will get very interesting. Well things are pretty violent already, with the deadly class war the police is fighting against the population (~1k in 2017, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo... ) plus the countless arrests, macing, tasering and other violent actions of police against peaceful demonstrators, plus all the violence committ…

Police fighting a class war? The vast majority of those 1000 deaths are unambiguously from the justified use of force, in self-defense and the defense of others. Believe it or not, there’s a lot of violent and bad people out there.
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