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Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

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Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#91

Post by cgh »

leggomylibro wrote: post #55
kregasaurusrex wrote: post #7

There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet. NPR ran a story[0] where Russian animals such as reindeer infected with Anthrax had thawed out, and caused outbreaks where people had to get preventative treatments against it. As a future threat model, what if there's new viruses or bacterium contained under previously frozen earth for which modern medi…

>There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet. Hey, that was the plot of H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness ! http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mm.aspx Spoilers: "...But we were not on a station platform. We were on the track ahead as the nightmare plastic column of foetid black iridescence oozed tightly onward through its…

> crushing the frantic penguins

There are no penguins in the Arctic (Antarctica only) so nothing to fear.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#92

Post by cperciva »

kregasaurusrex wrote: post #7

There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet. NPR ran a story[0] where Russian animals such as reindeer infected with Anthrax had thawed out, and caused outbreaks where people had to get preventative treatments against it. As a future threat model, what if there's new viruses or bacterium contained under previously frozen earth for which modern medi…

Anthrax is a bad example here. Sure, some frozen reindeer had anthrax... but so does the soil in most of the world.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#93

Post by michaelmrose »

nerdponx wrote: post #35
cryptoz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decades More than a century, in some cases. Capitalism needs additional constraints or it will end all civilization. Simply, the cost of creating greenhouse gasses has never been priced in to the market since Exxon and the likes have lobbied hard for decades to not let the truth gain any traction. They should all be in jail and there should be no profits in destroying ecosystems. Otherwise there seems no hope.

In a socialized system you'd have the same thing, except perpetuated by bureaucrats instead of businessmen. If anything, capitalism has an advantage in that it's at least theoretically possible to mitigate the effect of greed on politics. Throwing all your eggs into the government basket gives you no such recourse.

The general population controls so little of the economic might that this just isn't true. We could pool our votes to change the course of politics. If we pooled our dollars nobody would care.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#94

Post by michaelmrose »

johndevor wrote: post #42
cryptoz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decades More than a century, in some cases. Capitalism needs additional constraints or it will end all civilization. Simply, the cost of creating greenhouse gasses has never been priced in to the market since Exxon and the likes have lobbied hard for decades to not let the truth gain any traction. They should all be in jail and there should be no profits in destroying ecosystems. Otherwise there seems no hope.

And yet capitalism gives us the greatest hope we have: companies like Tesla, and products like solar panels and wind turbines. None of that would exist without capitalism.

citation needed

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#95

Post by flatline »

bsaul wrote: post #12
kregasaurusrex wrote: post #7

There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet. NPR ran a story[0] where Russian animals such as reindeer infected with Anthrax had thawed out, and caused outbreaks where people had to get preventative treatments against it. As a future threat model, what if there's new viruses or bacterium contained under previously frozen earth for which modern medi…

Or, what if every of those bacteries whose evolution stopped thousands of years ago are simply completely inapt to compete with the ones we've got today, because those had much more time to evolve ?

Someone has revived 45myo yeasts: https://www.wired.com/2009/07/ff-primordial-yeast/

Mutation takes place very quickly once the revived microorganism makes contact with the outside world. I would think the outcome is highly unpredictable.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#96

Post by School-Cotton »

maxxxxx wrote: post #52
corpMaverick wrote: post #2

It is not just a bomb that can blow the arctic. It can destroy all human civilization. And at this point, we may have lost any ability to do anything. Edit: Doom scale... 1 Inconvenient storms. 2 More frequent natural disasters. 3 Destroying coastal cities. 4 Causing hunger, wars and mass migrations. 5 Decimating human population. 6 Destroying human civilization. 7 Destroying all humans on earth. 8 Destroying all lif…

" It can destroy all human civilization." I think saying stuff like this should be avoided. There is almost no chance that civilization will be destroyed. There will be major problems but the world won't go under. By making up total doom scenarios credibility of climate change proponents goes down a lot in my view.

> There is almost no chance that civilization will be destroyed.

How do you know?

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#97

Post by twostoned »

goatlover wrote: post #39
jjoonathan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there credible models that suggest Earth will turn into Venus or something? It would take a hell of a lot more to end humanity than it would take to "merely" hurt/kill the most vulnerable segments of our population (which is what I thought the stakes were).

No, the Earth has been a lot warmer and colder in the past. We've had massive volcanoes going off for thousands of years, we've had iceball earth, we've had crocodiles and palm trees in the arctic. The Earth's systems always balance out over the long run. We don't stay trapped in ice ages or hot phases.

There's a really good George Carlin bit in one of his stand-ups about how the earth will be fine. Something along the lines of what you're saying; earthquakes, volcanoes, solar flares, etc. She's been around for a looong time folks. It's humanity that might be in for a bad day.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#98

Post by Angostura »

matte_black wrote: post #88
michaelmrose wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans prior to modern times haven't ever exceeded the carrying capacity of our environment and haven't had a die out that substantially reduced our population in modern times. Your thesis other than being fictional also is an emotional appeal to the concept that what is natural is desirable which is wholly unsound both on its face and because any die out sufficient to be effective is entirely likely to not only take…

Education is not the savior. There is a physical limit to resources here on this Earth. There is only so much food we can make, only so many jobs we can create. The only way to manage population is to control breeding. That is not a scaleable solution.

> Education is not the savior.

Unless you can educate the world that the Earth has limited carrying capacity and that GDP and population growth aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#99

Post by txsh »

> In fact, there's more carbon in the permafrost, Douglas says, than all the carbon humans have spewed into the atmosphere since the Industrial Revolution — first with steam trains, then with coal plants, cars and planes.

> Scientists don't know yet how much carbon will get released from thawing permafrost or how fast it will happen.

In a nutshell why not accepting anthropogenic global warming is scientific and accepting it is anti-science, not the other way around.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#100

Post by SEJeff »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #58
tzahola wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how evolution works. That’s like saying that a dog could easily kill a velociraptor because dogs are 65 million years “more evolved”.

I would bet on a medium-sized to big, healthy dog against a velociraptor. Raptors were around the size of a turkey. Might not be an easy fight, though.

Velociraptors have two rows of teeth in addition to a 2.5" retractable middle claw theorized to be used for slashing or stabbing attacks. Many dogs would have a size advantage, but all would have fewer teeth and generally soft padded paws with no serious claws. Even with the smaller size, the Velociraptors seemingly have the advantage. The "Fighting Dinosaurs" fossils give some credence to the claw being used to pierce the neck of a prey animal: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/fighting-dinos/the-fighting...

Something like maybe a Rodesian Ridgeback (lion hunting dogs) might stand a good chance however.

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