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Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

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Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#51

Post by jessaustin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #33
matte_black wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such events are necessary to keep human population under a manageable number. Throughout human history there have been outbreaks that claimed many lives and stunted population growth for some time. We will likely see such an event in our time.

> Such events are necessary to keep human population under a manageable number. Is there any evidence for this assertion?

It's really more of a philosophical position, isn't it? That isn't to say it's correct, but what would "evidence" even mean in this context?

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#52

Post by maxxxxx »

corpMaverick wrote: post #2

It is not just a bomb that can blow the arctic. It can destroy all human civilization. And at this point, we may have lost any ability to do anything. Edit: Doom scale... 1 Inconvenient storms. 2 More frequent natural disasters. 3 Destroying coastal cities. 4 Causing hunger, wars and mass migrations. 5 Decimating human population. 6 Destroying human civilization. 7 Destroying all humans on earth. 8 Destroying all lif…

" It can destroy all human civilization."

I think saying stuff like this should be avoided. There is almost no chance that civilization will be destroyed. There will be major problems but the world won't go under. By making up total doom scenarios credibility of climate change proponents goes down a lot in my view.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#53

Post by jjoonathan »

johndevor wrote: post #45
skrowl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely no shortage of doomsday climate models. CREDIBLE models is a different story. Look back at ones from 20+ years ago to see what they predicted would be happening by now. It's pretty funny actually.

Are there any models that predict accurately backwards?

All of them, because that's how you build models? Or do you mean something different?

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#54

Post by stickfigure »

ProAm wrote: post #17
knodi123 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all human civilization"? Isn't that a bit hyperbolic? destructive, sure. It would certainly lead to a lot of death, and a lot of hardship. Human civilization will certainly be changed- perhaps significantly. But I haven't see any evidence that it will cease to exist.

99.9% of all creatures to exist on earth are now extinct. [1] We're not special. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction

We're not special

With big brains and tools, humans can live in a much broader set of environmental conditions than any other species. While it doesn't make us extinction-proof, it makes us pretty hardy. It is hard to imagine what would destroy all the ecological niches that humans could survive in.

I would bet on the humans.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#55

Post by leggomylibro »

kregasaurusrex wrote: post #7

There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet. NPR ran a story[0] where Russian animals such as reindeer infected with Anthrax had thawed out, and caused outbreaks where people had to get preventative treatments against it. As a future threat model, what if there's new viruses or bacterium contained under previously frozen earth for which modern medi…

>There could be anything underneath all the permafrost, including new biodiversity which we haven't catalogued yet.

Hey, that was the plot of H.P. Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness!

http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mm.aspx

Spoilers:

"...But we were not on a station platform. We were on the track ahead as the nightmare plastic column of foetid black iridescence oozed tightly onward through its fifteen-foot sinus; gathering unholy speed and driving before it a spiral, re-thickening cloud of the pallid abyss-vapour. It was a terrible, indescribable thing vaster than any subway train—a shapeless congeries of protoplasmic bubbles, faintly self-luminous, and with myriads of temporary eyes forming and unforming as pustules of greenish light all over the tunnel-filling front that bore down upon us, crushing the frantic penguins and slithering over the glistening floor that it and its kind had swept so evilly free of all litter. Still came that eldritch, mocking cry—“Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!” And at last we remembered that the daemoniac shoggoths—given life, thought, and plastic organ patterns solely by the Old Ones, and having no language save that which the dot-groups expressed—had likewise no voice save the imitated accents of their bygone masters."

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#56

Post by matte_black »

FuckOffNeemo wrote: post #47
matte_black wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such events are necessary to keep human population under a manageable number. Throughout human history there have been outbreaks that claimed many lives and stunted population growth for some time. We will likely see such an event in our time.

Mass death < managed population and immigration control.

Managed population? Such as one child per couple policies? Immigration control? Such as closed borders and deportation of illegals?

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#57

Post by rconti »

ProAm wrote: post #17
knodi123 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all human civilization"? Isn't that a bit hyperbolic? destructive, sure. It would certainly lead to a lot of death, and a lot of hardship. Human civilization will certainly be changed- perhaps significantly. But I haven't see any evidence that it will cease to exist.

99.9% of all creatures to exist on earth are now extinct. [1] We're not special. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction

How many of them were at the top of the food chain?

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#58

Post by FeteCommuniste »

tzahola wrote: post #30
bsaul wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, what if every of those bacteries whose evolution stopped thousands of years ago are simply completely inapt to compete with the ones we've got today, because those had much more time to evolve ?

That’s not how evolution works. That’s like saying that a dog could easily kill a velociraptor because dogs are 65 million years “more evolved”.

I would bet on a medium-sized to big, healthy dog against a velociraptor. Raptors were around the size of a turkey. Might not be an easy fight, though.

Re: Scientists In Alaska Find Mammoth Amounts Of Carbon In The Warming Permafrost

#59

Post by lifeformed »

knodi123 wrote: post #11
corpMaverick wrote: post #2

It is not just a bomb that can blow the arctic. It can destroy all human civilization. And at this point, we may have lost any ability to do anything. Edit: Doom scale... 1 Inconvenient storms. 2 More frequent natural disasters. 3 Destroying coastal cities. 4 Causing hunger, wars and mass migrations. 5 Decimating human population. 6 Destroying human civilization. 7 Destroying all humans on earth. 8 Destroying all lif…

"all human civilization"? Isn't that a bit hyperbolic? destructive, sure. It would certainly lead to a lot of death, and a lot of hardship. Human civilization will certainly be changed- perhaps significantly. But I haven't see any evidence that it will cease to exist.

Destroying all civilization doesn't mean destroying all humans, but just the structures that hold society together. A runaway heating scenario may be a pretty effective way of doing that - all crops die, wars for food, nukes get used.
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