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Perl 6 Optimism

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Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#211

Post by ptman »

emmelaich wrote: post #201
newen wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These issues are only there because python has significant whitespace. These issues should not have been there in the first place. Ideally, I shouldn't need to use an editor geared specifically for python code to copy-paste some python code and run it. I have had no issues with the majority of other languages when copy-pasting some code and reindenting. Only in python have I had issues with it. Even in elpy-mode in E…

When I started writing C a million years ago I thought to myself -- why the f $# does the compiler need to be told twice what the structure of my code is? Once with {} and once with indentation. It's not as if anyone half-sensible is going to write good code with bad indentation. With that thought in mind, I am pathetically grateful for Python.

the compiler doesn't care about indentation, look at IOCCC https://www.ioccc.org

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#212

Post by lizmat »

cutler wrote: post #198
vgy7ujm wrote: post #179

I hope that the Perl 6 core devs take notice of this and other threads from the past days. Somehow I think that the efforts have not been directed enough at things that perhaps are not that exciting for them but that matters a lot for potential users. Examples: - Better migration/transition from Perl 5 - Performance and stability - Killer features and explaining these thoroughly - Best in class tooling, editor suppor…

Perl 6 is 5 times slower than Ruby in parsing a typical Apache log file with a regex. Text parsing with a regex was Perl's claim to fame but it seems to be last on Perl 6's list of priorities.

Only 5 times now? I seem to recall it being 100x slower not too long ago.

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#214

Post by vgy7ujm »

lizmat wrote: post #212
cutler wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl 6 is 5 times slower than Ruby in parsing a typical Apache log file with a regex. Text parsing with a regex was Perl's claim to fame but it seems to be last on Perl 6's list of priorities.

Only 5 times now? I seem to recall it being 100x slower not too long ago.

Constructive criticism: Perl 6 needs to be at least as fast and preferably faster than the competition to start seeing some serious use outside the echo chamber.

"Lets move to Perl 6 since it will cut our infrastructure costs in half. It will also cut our time to market in half due to the fantastic tooling." Thats the kind of things business decision makers need to hear.

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#215

Post by emmelaich »

ptman wrote: post #211
emmelaich wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I started writing C a million years ago I thought to myself -- why the f $# does the compiler need to be told twice what the structure of my code is? Once with {} and once with indentation. It's not as if anyone half-sensible is going to write good code with bad indentation. With that thought in mind, I am pathetically grateful for Python.

the compiler doesn't care about indentation, look at IOCCC https://www.ioccc.org

I know. I'm saying it should. Because why not?

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#216

Post by systems »

emmelaich wrote: post #203
systems wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." ― George Bernard Shaw Not all great decisions are rational, follow your heart be happy For me, Python is an uninspiring language, yet it inspired many people to build great things, a decision that to me, sound so .. irrational

The trouble with that syllogism is that some take it to mean that all unreasonable men create progress.

I would even say most unreasonable men fail

Very few succeed, but those who do, make big changes

It is a high risk high reward type of decision

But honestly, Perl 6 is not that bad of bet, there while small, a lively community around it filled with brilliant developers

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#217

Post by newen »

emmelaich wrote: post #215
ptman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the compiler doesn't care about indentation, look at IOCCC https://www.ioccc.org

I know. I'm saying it should. Because why not?

Because small invisible changes in the code text can result in actual changes in the logic of the code.

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#218

Post by toyg »

newen wrote: post #217
emmelaich wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. I'm saying it should. Because why not?

Because small invisible changes in the code text can result in actual changes in the logic of the code.

They are not invisible in any half-decent editor.

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#219

Post by newen »

toyg wrote: post #218
newen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because small invisible changes in the code text can result in actual changes in the logic of the code.

They are not invisible in any half-decent editor.

But in the majority of editors that actual people use (mainly, jupyter/ipython), they are invisible. Not to distract from my point though, which is that a good programming language should be easily editable from Notepad.

Re: Perl 6 Optimism

#220

Post by mixmastamyk »

newen wrote: post #205
mixmastamyk wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t need a special editor, just an industry-standard one, that’s the whole point. I was bothered by the whitespace too, for an hour one afternoon in the spring of ~2001. Then I got over it and realized what a masterstroke it was, removing ~15% of the redundant visual noise. Firstly, if you cut and paste so often that you feel it should take precedence over everyday readability and conciseness, then that’s a dev sme…

My point is that you should be able to code python using Notepad but it is impossible to. Yeah, when multiple people complain of the same thing and you make up more and more complicated solutions for the problem, then you know where the problem lies. Also, you smell.

Yeah, using an editor is so complicated. Maybe programming isn’t for you.
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