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Ending Bitcoin Support

stripe.com

191–200 of 659 posts

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#191
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning needs two additional transactions to load and unload payment channels, maximum transaction amount is 0.04 BTC, and it is at least 1 year away from maturity for large scale deployment. Current price bubble will bust long before that, and no one will care about LN anymore.

> maximum transaction amount is 0.04 BTC really? i haven't seen this anywhere before. can you cite a source?

It's not a "protocol" maximum, it's the currently allowed max in a lot of node software, since it's still VERY new and the probability that it will have a bug forcing you to lose all of your money is high right now.

So the developers put a limit of .04 BTC to keep that risk lower and prevent over-zealous users from losing a ton if something goes wrong. As the code matures and the network grows, that limit will be lifted in client code.

It's basically a "you can only easily lose this much money" max while the software is new. And you can compile it yourself without this max right now if you want to be a crazy person.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading your comment finally made it click to me why cryptocurrencies (specifically Bitcoin) are distinct from a gold bar or other non-currency stores of value. A gold bar is going to remain a gold bar forever, people's perception of its value will change even though the supply will remain mostly steady, but it will stay a gold bar no matter what. Bitcoin may change in value based on perception, it's supply will rema…

To be fair, people could also stop thinking gold is worth much. Maybe a modern-day alchemist finally figures out the formula. I don't know. Probably far less likely than the Bitcoin scenarios though.

If someone discovers a huge lode or if something crazy happened like the US Government divesting, it could cause a pretty wild swing, in the manner of Mansa Musa's pilgrimage.

Guess it's one of those things that seems impossible, until it isn't.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see yourself picking up another cryptocurrency in the future? One that isn't just an asset to be held but was accepted as a form of payment on a larger scale?

Why stop there? Why not allow people to pay with stocks and stock options?

How easy it is to accept stocks as a payment compared to cryptocurrencies? How easy it is to send stocks to some other person?

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#194
Bitcoin isn't like gold. You cannot launder money or evade tax using gold. No need for trust means no trust. We know what "gold standard" means. You can guess what "bitcoin standard" would mean. Those who think bitcoin is an asset storage are delusional.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Very little though. If the demand for gold were merely industrial it would not need to be mined in such quantities as it has throughout history. I would put jewelry in the 'sentimental' category as well. Not only is Bitcoin purely sentimental, it represents has huge costs in the form of raw energy. Bitcoin's only claim to value is that it is an artifact of an act of ritual sacrifice. One might imagine a precedent in…

Someone's been reading their Georges Bataille...

Edit for less smug more content: sacrifice is an interesting lens through which to look at bitcoin. You could argue that burning "excess" compute power is the real point, not the tokens.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#196
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Jewelry doesn't have inherent value. Guns, cars, food and shelter has inherent value. Gold has been a luxury good long before it had any practical applications.

I do think the value in all these currencies is that it will change the value Banks in general bring to society.

If we see a widely traded and daily useful crypto-currency in use for general goods and services, we'll see a deleveraging of the banking system.

Right now how often do you exchange a real Dollar or Nickel for goods or services. Chances are your token of exchange is your credit or debit card, with a balance maintained by a bank.

Would be very interesting to imagine the world we will live in if the banks are no longer keeping the ledger for society.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading your comment finally made it click to me why cryptocurrencies (specifically Bitcoin) are distinct from a gold bar or other non-currency stores of value. A gold bar is going to remain a gold bar forever, people's perception of its value will change even though the supply will remain mostly steady, but it will stay a gold bar no matter what. Bitcoin may change in value based on perception, it's supply will rema…

> it's supply will remain constant after it has all been mined Even this could change if the miners and thought-leaders decide that it should.

Haha, good point.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#198
post #68
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reading of this post is that Stripe has no particular love for Bitcoin, but wants to avoid the ire of the Bitcoin fans on the internet, and so it's coated in "Bitcoin is great, we were the first people to adopt it, we can't criticize it at all" etc. etc.

Stripe cofounder here. I think you're reading too much into it. We do think Bitcoin is cool. We're just trying to be as plainspoken and clear as possible about why we're doing what we're doing.

I found the blogpost to be genuine, as far as corporate statements goes.

In my opinion, the intimations of a "bad breakup" and of festering resentment, are grounded more in the cryptocurrency-community's insecurities than anything specific to Stripe.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, people could also stop thinking gold is worth much. Maybe a modern-day alchemist finally figures out the formula. I don't know. Probably far less likely than the Bitcoin scenarios though.

> To be fair, people could also stop thinking gold is worth much. They've already noted that: > people's perception of its value will change But as they say, a gold bar will remain a gold bar, until and unless it is actively destroyed. Not so for bitcoins, which only remain so as long as they're actively maintained (not just individual coins but the mining networks which allows the creation of new transactions)

I imagined that was talking about a certain level of fluctuation in the exchange rate of gold to dollars, not a radical change like happened to, say, aluminum (considered rare and precious at the time it was put on top of the Washington Monument; not so much today).

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#200

Given that bitcoin isn't a medium of transaction anymore and a store of value this makes a lot of sense. Too bad they aren't replacing this with another cryptocurrency at the moment.

> Given that bitcoin isn't a medium of transaction anymore and a store of value

Due to that, I think Bitcoin has failed and I no longer see it surviving long-term, simply due to the fact that there is much better tech out there now in the form of "alt" coins. (Not going to shill any specific coin here.)

What do I mean by "failed"? I got the impression from what I've read from Satoshi that they wanted Bitcoin to be a type of electronic cash and not necessarily only a store of value (see e.g. [0]). Yes, decentralized and trust-less, but still useable for even micro-transactions (from the linked article):

> It could get started in a narrow niche like reward points, donation tokens, currency for a game or micropayments for adult sites. Initially it can be used in proof-of-work applications for services that could almost be free but not quite.

Bitcoin seems very much inspired by Bit gold [1], which summarizes with:

> In summary, all money mankind has ever used has been insecure in one way or another. This insecurity has been manifested in a wide variety of ways, from counterfeiting to theft, but the most pernicious of which has probably been inflation. Bit gold may provide us with a money of unprecedented security from these dangers.

A currency (read: gold) only has value because we, as a society, decide that it does. Gold is a "good" store of value because we have currency depreciation with fiat, so storing your long-term value it in doesn't make sense. What happens when (not if) we stop storing our value in physical things like gold and we create a global digital currency that's fast, secure, trust-less, decentralized, and most of all a stable store of value? (Open to hear discussion on if that is even possible.)

A cryptocurrency with those characteristics has all the benefits of gold, without the need for carrying all that expensive-to-move, heavy metal around with you to be able to exchange any of it for goods. And you could exchange on a global scale, something not possible with gold. Banks would be on their way out, because the people would be in control of their own money.

What happens to government-backed fiat when people can exchange their gold like they would fiat? I'd think fiat would start to lose favor. But I'm not sure what affect that would have on world governments and society. (Again, open to discussion because I'm not super well-versed in these subjects.)

Currently, Bitcoin can't do that in its current form—that is, be easily exchangeable for goods—its simply turned into a digitized gold that has the same issues when it comes to exchange—but I think we'll eventually get there with a coin, and there's some promising altcoins that have awesome tech right now. Maybe that coin ends up being Bitcoin after all. Maybe there will be coins, plural, who knows.

Maybe all that is a bit too utopian and it simply can't work on a global scale with governments. Still interesting to think about.

[0]: http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/17/

[1]: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

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