Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin • Hacker News Board

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#31

Post by loorinm » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

amphibian87 wrote: post #27

wickawic wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug addiction is so bad because drugs fuck with your priorities at a very basic level. Asking someone to give up a heroin addiction is kind of like asking you to abandon your children. Sure it is physically possible to do it (not even that hard, really!) but if you have kids you know how impossible that would feel. And when you are off them, you still feel that affinity, just as you would forever miss your kids.

You're close. I's more like if when your kids aren't around, you get sick. And it would be incredibly easy to go get your kids back. Like maybe they're just at their grandma's house or something, idk the analogy gets kinda weird. So you get sick, and not just "feeling a bit green," but fetal position, rocking back and forth, vomiting, runny nose, achy muscle sick. You'll grind your teeth and it's all you can think ab…

I find this a remarkably accurate description of addiction/withdrawal.

“Take reaponsibility” does absolutely nothing to help, except maybe satisfy the commenter’s obvious need to feel better-than.

A lot of people are born into families of addicts, myself included, and although the substance may change, it really isn’t our fault at all that they we are addicts.

For most people it takes a big, dedicated support team of other people to get clean. “taking responsibility” is a good start, but it really isn’t enough.

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#32

Post by badminton1 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

beat wrote: post #11

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #10

I don't think it is appropriate to blame doctors in the US for this. She was initially prescribed the drug in Berlin. The article mentions that she was in a high-risk group that should not be prescribed the drug, but it is likely that the European doctor was legitimately unaware of that. "When, back in New York, doctors refused to supply her any more, she turned to the black market, and to cheaper hard street drugs w…

I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.

Unless it is prescribed for the wrong reason and the dosage is incorrect, which is possible thanks to bullshit research.

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#33

Post by hugodahl » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 2:16 AM UTC

amphibian87 wrote: post #27

wickawic wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug addiction is so bad because drugs fuck with your priorities at a very basic level. Asking someone to give up a heroin addiction is kind of like asking you to abandon your children. Sure it is physically possible to do it (not even that hard, really!) but if you have kids you know how impossible that would feel. And when you are off them, you still feel that affinity, just as you would forever miss your kids.

You're close. I's more like if when your kids aren't around, you get sick. And it would be incredibly easy to go get your kids back. Like maybe they're just at their grandma's house or something, idk the analogy gets kinda weird. So you get sick, and not just "feeling a bit green," but fetal position, rocking back and forth, vomiting, runny nose, achy muscle sick. You'll grind your teeth and it's all you can think ab…

There was a great "external observer" type account in a BBC article [0] a short while back. Granted it wasn't fully impartial, given the author is the mother and addict her daughter, but I believe the account to be rather telling and honest none the less.

[0]: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39212295

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#34

Post by acct1771 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

civilitty wrote: post #13

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #10

I don't think it is appropriate to blame doctors in the US for this. She was initially prescribed the drug in Berlin. The article mentions that she was in a high-risk group that should not be prescribed the drug, but it is likely that the European doctor was legitimately unaware of that. "When, back in New York, doctors refused to supply her any more, she turned to the black market, and to cheaper hard street drugs w…

Purdue misled doctors on the effectiveness of the recommended dosages in a way that essentially maximized the addictiveness of their drug in a clinical setting, globally. Instead of telling doctors to prescribe a more frequent dose, they told them to prescribe a larger dose less often which causes more severe withdrawals and has a higher chance of leading to physiological dependence. Doctors the world over were legit…

So you're telling me medical societies...AND regulatory bodies, both asleep at the wheel?

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#35

Post by acct1771 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 4:58 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #26

dawhizkid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an incredibly naive statement.

How so? I've used Oxycontin before. I used it for one week, as prescribed, and it helped me recover from a painful medical issue. I'm grateful it was available to me. For the photographer profiled in this piece to take zero responsibility for her predicament, particularly since she's struggled with opiod and other types of addiction currently and in the past, is absurd. She's in effect saying, "I abused this drug, so…

People have successfully used heroin, alcohol, and coke medically. Doesn't mean there aren't far smarter alternatives we can move to.

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#36

Post by tinymollusk » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

efitz wrote: post #15

09bjb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Really work" in this case meaning probable addiction and potential death in exchange for a month or two of pain relief. If it "really worked" as advertised (maximum of one dose needed per 12 hours) we wouldn't have this problem at all. OxyContin's much-marketed delayed release mechanism is BS and it's costing thousands of lives and livelihoods.

I had surgery in 2011 and was prescribed OxyContin for post-operative pain. I was very satisfied with the therapy as I had very little post-operative discomfort. I took the medicine for several days, the prescription ran out, and I felt no incentive to request a refill nor did I turn to street drugs. I am truly sorry for people that struggle with addiction. I have family members who struggle with that and I know the…

The problem, of course, is the misuse. Either by doctors who misprescribe (chronic pain relief is a common use case for opioids, and probably an exceptionally bad one), patients who misuse or abuse, and marketing companies like Purdue who push for profit.

The question, to me, is this: where do we balance benefits/freedoms from overall harm?

This is also the crux of many issues like alcohol abuse, gun rights, etc. Is it more harmful for the government to intervene than to not attempt to legislate away the source of the problem, at the cost of losing something valued by people in the society?

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#37

Post by maym86 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #20

beat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.

I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That…

It's not just a response or opinion. It's how addiction works. Read about it.

How do you feel about climate change?

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#38

Post by J5892 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:46 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #20

beat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.

I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That…

It's not like you can just flip a switch once you realize you have a problem. It's great that your friends were able to break free from their addiction, but there are an infinite amount of factors that can (and do) prevent others from doing so. In many cases, one second of weakness is enough to fall back into addiction after years of sobriety.

Logically, sure, you recognize a problem, and you work hard to get rid of it. And many people are able to do that.

But this wouldn't be a worldwide epidemic if a hard choice were the only thing standing in the way.

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#39

Post by beat » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #20

beat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you quite understand how drug addiction works. It's not a simple matter of "take responsibility". Particularly since she didn't set out to be a drug addict - she was prescribed a painkiller, and took it by prescription. That has happened to rather a lot of people.

I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That…

Which is exactly what she did. She recognized there is a problem, got help, kicked the habit, and is now committing herself to changing the process that leads to people like her becoming addicted.

You aren't thinking this through at all, even by your own standards.

Re: Artist Nan Goldin takes on the billionaire family behind OxyContin

#40

Post by subjectsigma » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

maym86 wrote: post #37

rubicon33 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this response. It's such a classic copout and one that attempts to completely nullify any argument for personal responsibility. We just don't "understand" how drug addiction works. Right. How have some people come to believe that simply being prescribed these medications and taking them as prescribed STRIPS the patient of mental faculty to notice a problem, and renders them utterly dependent and hopeless? That…

It's not just a response or opinion. It's how addiction works. Read about it. How do you feel about climate change?

Please don't post such obvious bait on HN.