Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 148 posts

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#81

Post by myf01d »

afroboy wrote: post #78
myf01d wrote: post #71

Qatar is the biggest sponsor of Islamic radicalism and terrorism all over the world. They also pay western politicians and media to tarnish their neighbor countries especially Egypt.

Seriously? where are you proofs? and if your fictional proofs exist then why they didn't took Qatar into international court.

If you really want to look for proofs, you can google it. I am an Arab and since the the mid 90s Qatar has been providing all Sunni islamic groups from MB, Hamas and Al Qaeda with all kinds of support (money, media, bribing western politicians, etc...)

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#82

Post by marklgr »

psergeant wrote: post #53
ex3ndr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that people are also affected by local propaganda and they told you propaganda instead of something real. Same is happening with Russia and Ukraine. My ex-wife have Ukranian roots and i am from russia. Ukranian part of her family stopped to talk to russian one and both sides always turn on propaganda when talking to other side. No one of them know what's happening and the truth as always somewhere in the mi…

> the truth as always somewhere in the middle This is a common logical fallacy used by propagandists. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

From the link itself: "Much of the time the truth does indeed lie between two extreme points"

That's the problem with all these fallacies lists: things are a fallacy, except when they are not. So most often, they are just used as rhetoric weapons in verbal jousts.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#83

Post by mdekkers »

nikcub wrote: post #58
Consultant32452 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth the read: https://www.mintpressnews.com/wikileaks-us-israel-and-saudi-...

Have a link to the original cable? A lot of what is written there doesn't pass the basic smell test of anybody even vaguely familiar with the conflict

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#84

Post by danmaz74 »

roadbeats wrote: post #73
danmaz74 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I linked it because I keep a close eye on Putin's propaganda war on democracy and, specifically, on the EU (me being in the EU). But just re-read your comment and the connection is pretty obvious... > The goal was to create a new pipeline from Qatar to Europe so Europe don’t have to buy gas from Russia > Russia won the war in both Ukraine and Syria, at same time > Qatar and Turkey are now enemies on the Russian side.…

Either you follow Russian media agencies closely so you can categorize information by national news agencies, or you're just labeling me for telling facts that you don't like to hear. Neither behavior is not smart.

If you're interested, I regularly read what some of Putin's supporter I know post on Reddit (mostly coming from RT and Sputnik). This way, I keep up on that kind of propaganda without having to read all the Russian media agencies directly.

To anticipate your next point: is there propaganda in the West? Yes, absolutely. Is it the same level BS as Putin's propaganda? No way - in the West there are just so many more independent sources of information, that finding out most BS is easy enough if you try. In Russia, things are very tightly controlled by Putin and his system.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#85

Post by simias »

_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

Surprised to see tinfoil hat theories on top of a HN thread. Not to say that there's not some truth in there but reducing the extremely complex geopolitical situation in the middle east to "they wanted to build a pipeline" is rather laughable.

I mean seriously:

>The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was total bullshit.

>Western news brainwashed the whole world with ISIS and YPG

>The western alliance tried hard to take down their presidents by organizing coups but it failed.

And the most amusing part of your comment:

>people just buy this stuff easily in the propaganda bubble they live in

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

This whole comment is one big huge [citation needed] tag.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#86

Post by dragonwriter »

marklgr wrote: post #82
psergeant wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the truth as always somewhere in the middle This is a common logical fallacy used by propagandists. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

From the link itself: "Much of the time the truth does indeed lie between two extreme points" That's the problem with all these fallacies lists: things are a fallacy, except when they are not. So most often, they are just used as rhetoric weapons in verbal jousts.

> That's the problem with all these fallacies lists: things are a fallacy, except when they are not.

No, fallacies are always fallacy, but a fallacy is an error in logic that does not imply that the conclusion is wrong [0], only that the argument offered fails to establish the truth of the conclusion it seeks to justify.

[0] An argument for the negation of a conclusion based solely on a fallacy in an argument offered for that conclusion is the definition of the fallacy fallacy.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#87

Post by tobltobs »

myf01d wrote: post #81
afroboy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? where are you proofs? and if your fictional proofs exist then why they didn't took Qatar into international court.

If you really want to look for proofs, you can google it. I am an Arab and since the the mid 90s Qatar has been providing all Sunni islamic groups from MB, Hamas and Al Qaeda with all kinds of support (money, media, bribing western politicians, etc...)

If I google for this Saudi Arabia comes up first, by a big margin.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#88

Post by ben_w »

hitekker wrote: post #66
nikcub wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. This isn't true - they have all backed different factions in the conflict against the Syrian government, against ISIS and today against one another in Idlib. Assuming they defeated the Syria government this conflict was always going to split down the differing interests between the Saudis and Qataris The succinct way (as…

A well thought-out and researched response to a breathless conspiracy theory. Nicely done.

From here, I can’t tell which is the conspiracy theory and which (if any) is the truth.

(I wonder if my complete lack of clue about what is plausible in this context is a common theme amongst conspiracy theory believers?)

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#89

Post by laumars »

danmaz74 wrote: post #84
roadbeats wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you follow Russian media agencies closely so you can categorize information by national news agencies, or you're just labeling me for telling facts that you don't like to hear. Neither behavior is not smart.

If you're interested, I regularly read what some of Putin's supporter I know post on Reddit (mostly coming from RT and Sputnik). This way, I keep up on that kind of propaganda without having to read all the Russian media agencies directly. To anticipate your next point: is there propaganda in the West? Yes, absolutely. Is it the same level BS as Putin's propaganda? No way - in the West there are just so many more ind…

Most people in the west don't try and find impartial information or counter arguments as generally people don't like having their opinion challenged. Worse still, many of the most popular news networks are also the the worst for political bias (Fox News, News UK (Sun), The Daily Mail, etc.)

Let's also not forget just how many people get their news from untrusted sources posted on social media and other similar communication mediums.

So I think it's a stretch to say things are significantly better in the west. If anything, people are just as badly misled here but with the added misconception that the free market and freedom of press means their news is automatically also free of political bias (or sometimes they do know but simply don't care because they had that bias to begin with)

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#90

Post by justincormack »

jimjimjim wrote: post #54
_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

what are you talking about. that's a weird conspiracy theory you've got (and i know a lot of weird theories). but where do i begin. oil - yes europe want to reduce reliance on russian gas but there are a LOT of countries between qatar and europe. Arab spring - did NOT start in syria. in syria the flames were fanned by all interested countries in the hopes that a bunch of autocratic dictators would be overthrown with…

Qatar produce gas not oil. I know Americans call oil "gas" but this is actually the gaseous stuff. Europe is very dependent on Rusdian gas, not so much oil.
Post reply on HN