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Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

nytimes.com

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Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#61

Post by zapfranklin »

BatFastard wrote: post #57
jimjimjim wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you talking about. that's a weird conspiracy theory you've got (and i know a lot of weird theories). but where do i begin. oil - yes europe want to reduce reliance on russian gas but there are a LOT of countries between qatar and europe. Arab spring - did NOT start in syria. in syria the flames were fanned by all interested countries in the hopes that a bunch of autocratic dictators would be overthrown with…

I am betting on the Kurds to kick their ass. The Kurds are a well trained, well equipped (for the moment at least), motivated force defending themselves. The Turks (IMHO) are unseasoned forces are fighting battle that is against international laws, and is for a country run by a dictator. Both points that are huge factors against their success. It will probably come down to air power, I wonder what the Kurds have in t…

Turkey has the second largest standing military force in NATO. They are also, well, in NATO. The current situation is uncomfortable for a whole lot of people, but when push comes to shove, I don't see how a proxy force with questionable allegiance stands up to a NATO country with a massive air and ground force.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#62

Post by roadbeats »

danmaz74 wrote: post #59
_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

It's the first time I see such a complete garbage Putin-propaganda comment at the top on HN (I won't repeat the reasons here - just read the other top answers). I find it very, very worrying.

I don't see how you connected my thoughts to Russia. I'm just a guy who has been praying for the people in Syria since the beginning of the war.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#63

Post by wahern »

kchoudhu wrote: post #26
jessaustin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Jazeera has got to have something to do with it, right? The biggest threats to royalty are always their subjects, and even if AJ is somewhat discredited as Qatari propaganda in its neighbor's societies, it is also certainly more than that. As someone from a different hemisphere, I have to say the AJ Roku app is the single best way I've found to watch news. No one is risking the ire of his rulers to check out what…

The Al Jazeera thing always struck me as a canard: it's been in operation for the last 20 years, why did it suddenly become such a sticking point in 2017?

I don't think there was anything sudden about it. From a 2003 BBC article

  Its rival, al-Jazeera, has ruffled feathers among
  governments in the West by screening videotapes from al
  Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. And by giving a platform to
  exiled Middle East dissidents, al-Jazeera has upset Jordan,
  Kuwait, Algeria and the Palestinian Authority, among others.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3236654.stm

Here's a 2014 article about Al Jazeera journalists being criminally sentenced in Egypt for supporting the Muslim Brotherhood: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/egypts-imprisoned-al-jazeera-journa...

If you search Google News, you'll see that Al Jazeera has had local offices shuttered and journalists arrested on-and-off since its beginning in just about every Arab country. It's been outright banned at times in several countries, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and India.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#64

Post by shykes »

danmaz74 wrote: post #59
_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

It's the first time I see such a complete garbage Putin-propaganda comment at the top on HN (I won't repeat the reasons here - just read the other top answers). I find it very, very worrying.

My thought exactly.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#65

Post by zapfranklin »

jimjimjim wrote: post #60
BatFastard wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am betting on the Kurds to kick their ass. The Kurds are a well trained, well equipped (for the moment at least), motivated force defending themselves. The Turks (IMHO) are unseasoned forces are fighting battle that is against international laws, and is for a country run by a dictator. Both points that are huge factors against their success. It will probably come down to air power, I wonder what the Kurds have in t…

alas, since the crack downs, turkey just does not care about international opinion (they have a cordial relationship with russia, and donald seems to admire Erdoğan). they will probably just shell it for a while.

I actually think they care a lot about international opinion, but not always in the most healthy way. Turkey seems to be primarily interested in playing spoiler, keeping an eye on economic interests, and exercising their refugee destination card in a beneficial manner. They've got an interesting balancing act going between their increasingly strong Russian alliance and their membership in the European community.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#66

Post by hitekker »

nikcub wrote: post #18
_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

> Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. This isn't true - they have all backed different factions in the conflict against the Syrian government, against ISIS and today against one another in Idlib. Assuming they defeated the Syria government this conflict was always going to split down the differing interests between the Saudis and Qataris The succinct way (as…

A well thought-out and researched response to a breathless conspiracy theory.

Nicely done.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#67

Post by kchoudhu »

wahern wrote: post #63
kchoudhu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Al Jazeera thing always struck me as a canard: it's been in operation for the last 20 years, why did it suddenly become such a sticking point in 2017?

I don't think there was anything sudden about it. From a 2003 BBC article Its rival, al-Jazeera, has ruffled feathers among governments in the West by screening videotapes from al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. And by giving a platform to exiled Middle East dissidents, al-Jazeera has upset Jordan, Kuwait, Algeria and the Palestinian Authority, among others. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3236654.stm Here'…

Al Jazeera been a continuous thorn in the rest of the Arab world's side, yes, but what caused tensions to boil over in 2017? Their arabic language coverage wasn't really any more abrasive last year than it was in 2011, 2005 or 1999.

Hearst's aphorism "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war" comes to mind. AJ was only a pretext for this mess.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#68

Post by kchoudhu »

jessaustin wrote: post #56
kchoudhu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Al Jazeera thing always struck me as a canard: it's been in operation for the last 20 years, why did it suddenly become such a sticking point in 2017?

ISTM it probably happened in 2011? The young prince wasn't in a position to do anything at that time, although one can imagine that Salman was bringing him around to listen to the various old dudes then, and the topic probably came up. He certainly hit the ground running in 2015.

Running is such an overstatement of what he's been up to though...

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#69

Post by danmaz74 »

roadbeats wrote: post #62
danmaz74 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the first time I see such a complete garbage Putin-propaganda comment at the top on HN (I won't repeat the reasons here - just read the other top answers). I find it very, very worrying.

I don't see how you connected my thoughts to Russia. I'm just a guy who has been praying for the people in Syria since the beginning of the war.

I linked it because I keep a close eye on Putin's propaganda war on democracy and, specifically, on the EU (me being in the EU). But just re-read your comment and the connection is pretty obvious...

> The goal was to create a new pipeline from Qatar to Europe so Europe don’t have to buy gas from Russia

> Russia won the war in both Ukraine and Syria, at same time

> Qatar and Turkey are now enemies on the Russian side. The western alliance tried hard to take down their presidents by organizing coups but it failed.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#70

Post by zapfranklin »

indubitable wrote: post #41
nashashmi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your information has depth. What articles have you been reading? I want to learn more.

Seymour Hersh has written a phenomenal amount about Syria. Here are a couple of interesting articles: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-a... https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-mi... Stratfor, something like a private intelligence organization - well beyond a think tank, also has written a vast amount on Syria to the point that I think just googling for 'strator syria' w…

Hersh's recent work has been pointedly criticized as that of a conspiracy theorist versus an investigative journalist. [1]

Generalizing reporting in "most US mainstream outlets" as "childlike misrepresentation" is the kind of fake news doubt-sowing that is killing our (America's) relationship with facts.

There has been some excellent reporting on the relatively complex Syrian Civil War from stalwarts such as the Washington Post and the New York Times. Even upstart Buzzfeed News has done some great stuff that was carefully sourced and thoroughly investigated - regardless of how bad it made the US look.

My perspective is that of someone who has been professionally and personally following the Syrian Civil War since 2012.

[1] - https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bi...

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