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Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

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Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#31

Post by ProfessorLayton »

michaelmior wrote: post #11

> The California Highway Patrol and Culver City Fire Department confirmed the southbound Tesla had struck the fire truck, but could not immediately confirm whether the vehicle had been on Autopilot. It sounds like it's not 100% confirmed that Autopilot was at fault. The first sentence of the article also reads " reportedly on 'Autopilot'"

The more I think about it, the more I think that there should be an outward signal, such as a special light, that a car is in self-driving mode. We already require signals when changing lanes, reversing, and for electric cars to be audible at low speeds (starting in 2019). Those nearby shouldn’t have to guess if a car is under computer control.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#32

Post by imron »

I guess it's not all bad news - a collision with a stationary object at 65mph and the driver was able to walk away

> Because of the force of the impact, firefighters advised the Tesla driver that he should be taken for a medical evaluation, but he showed no significant injuries and refused treatment,

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#33

Post by toomuchtodo »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #19
sathackr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbags save lives. Airbags also kill babies if used incorrectly. There are warning placards in several places in your car saying such. Sometimes an airbag can cause more injury than the accident. A seatbelt may trap you in a sinking car. But overall, airbags and seatbelts have significantly reduced traffic injuries and fatalities. Autopilot saves lives. Autopilot used incorrectly can kill people. But overall, Autopi…

>Autopilot saves lives. There is no evidence of this.

NHTSA says it does (autopilot reduced crash rates by 40%).

http://bgr.com/2017/01/19/tesla-autopilot-crash-safety-stati...

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#34

Post by criddell »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #19
sathackr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbags save lives. Airbags also kill babies if used incorrectly. There are warning placards in several places in your car saying such. Sometimes an airbag can cause more injury than the accident. A seatbelt may trap you in a sinking car. But overall, airbags and seatbelts have significantly reduced traffic injuries and fatalities. Autopilot saves lives. Autopilot used incorrectly can kill people. But overall, Autopi…

>Autopilot saves lives. There is no evidence of this.

I think Tesla has enough telemetry and miles driven to come up with some idea of whether or not miles traveled with Autopilot on have more or fewer deaths than cars in general.

I don't know what the answer is, but there's certainly evidence.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#35

Post by rileymat2 »

jsjohnst wrote: post #25
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #17

You know I take issue with Tesla on these incidents. They're trying to have it both ways. They market it as 'autopilot' to appeal to the dream of complete self-driving but if an accident actually happens it can never be the fault of autopilot. After all it's required for the driver to be paying attention so if they didn't override autopilot it's obvious they weren't paying attention. Really I'd like to see the govern…

I couldn’t agree more. It baffles me how Tesla can get away with such blatant false advertising (it’s anything but “autopilot” in any layman sense), especially in light of there being multiple incidents of bad accidents which showed them at fault.

I would be curious about the stats though, If accidents are less frequent, is it at fault for accidents, or did it save us from a bunch of accidents?

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#36

Post by wpietri »

rootusrootus wrote: post #2

I wonder if it is imprudent to create too many vehicles that have partial self-driving capability before we have ones that can do 100% of it. Instead of to the point where you can take your attention away from the road, but not to the point where it can reliably avoid accidents on your behalf. Too many people aren't wise enough to use the partial autonomous technology without abusing it.

Yeah, the quote about the NTSB on a similar accident is telling: "the National Transportation Safety Board ruled that Autopilot contributed to the crash by allowing lengthy disengagement from the driving process."

In my view, driving is already boring enough that it's insufficiently attention-grabbing for safety's sake. That's why, e.g., the "naked streets" model is removing lane marking. Decreasing (false) certainty forces more cognitive engagement, making things safer: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/remova...

If anything, for the decades [1] while we're waiting for full automation, I'd like to see the equivalent of Threat Image Projection. It's the technology for luggage scanning where they put images of fake guns, bombs, etc in the images of real luggage. If the operator doesn't press the "threat" button they are alerted that they slipped up. It brings the frequency of important events up into the range where humans can pay attention. It'd be great to have the same thing for cars, so that AR images of deer, cyclists, children, and fire trucks appear; if you don't attempt to take evasive action, you lose points. [2]

[1] E.g., iRobot founder Rodney Brooks says not before mid 2030s: http://rodneybrooks.com/my-dated-predictions/

[2] I am, of course, kidding.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#37

Post by madengr »

hndamien wrote: post #29
ebbv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I am a big fan of Tesla and I used to make excuses for them on this but I think it’s b.s. they didn’t rename it after the incident where the guy died. Cool marketing names do not outweigh being totally honest and up front. If I made rat poison that looked like candy and named it “Yummy Candy Rat Poison” and some kid died coz they ate it, I’d deserve some blame regardless of parents keeping poison away from ki…

It isn't called full self driving, it is called auto-pilot. In aviation, auto-pilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators but assist them in controlling aircraft, allowing them to focus on broader aspects of operations.

The Tesla autopilot doesn’t work in the air, either:

https://carbuzz.com/news/teens-take-tesla-model-s-for-joyrid...

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#39

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #31
michaelmior wrote: post #11

> The California Highway Patrol and Culver City Fire Department confirmed the southbound Tesla had struck the fire truck, but could not immediately confirm whether the vehicle had been on Autopilot. It sounds like it's not 100% confirmed that Autopilot was at fault. The first sentence of the article also reads " reportedly on 'Autopilot'"

The more I think about it, the more I think that there should be an outward signal, such as a special light, that a car is in self-driving mode. We already require signals when changing lanes, reversing, and for electric cars to be audible at low speeds (starting in 2019). Those nearby shouldn’t have to guess if a car is under computer control.

What do you think human drivers should do differently when driving near a car that is under computer control?

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#40

Post by jeffasinger »

kuschku wrote: post #10
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so is non (human-) visible wavelengths not part of the autopilot system?

Tesla, to save money, is trying to build autopilot from regular video cameras in visible spectrum. EDIT: Some models still contain other sensors, but Musk has been trying to go with purely optical for a long time.

I really think they're going to have to consider using forward facing radar as well.
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