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“The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

scientificamerican.com

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Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#51

Post by nonbel »

bigtex wrote: post #48
nonbel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically your argument is that the costs of getting the vaccine are so negligible they can be ignored? What about side effects? https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/general.htm

Yep, all you have to do is review the government statistics on vaccine injuries to see the list of all the people who got GBS from the flu shot https://www.hrsa.gov/advisorycommittees/childhoodvaccines/Me...

I wasn't really thinking about GBS, but that is one of the more severe possible (but rare) side effects. Most people (everyone?) feels under the weather for a few days after a flu shot.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#52

Post by smileysteve »

nonbel wrote: post #34
lutorm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I had to do was take time out of my day to go to the pharmacy, copay with my insurance was $0. Which just makes sense from a financial point of view for the insurance companies, too.

This gives an inaccurate assessment of the cost. Obviously you are paying for the shot by paying more for insurance (either directly or via taxes or via taxes spent on that rather than some other government service you could take advantage of). My point is that you can't say something "is worth it" without considering both costs AND benefits (I have recently seen friends get so ill they almost got fired because docto…

> Obviously you are paying for the shot by paying more for insurance

Wrong calculation. The insurance company is trying to SAVE expenditures of doctors and hospitalizations; therefore, customers getting the flu shot cost the insurer less. Even further for herd immunity (the pt), 1 insured getting the flu shot might reduce 4-8 others from getting the flu.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#53

Post by lazerpants »

VohuMana wrote: post #25
tbatchelli wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the relationship be between Vit D and this (or any) flu?

I'd love to know the answer to this, if there is one. Anecdotally: I have seen a couple studies pop up recently talking about how daily value of vitamin D has been wrong for a long time. This makes me think taking vitamin D might be the new fad medical thing to do, kinda like how going gluten free was the big thing a couple years ago. For transparency I have not read all of these but they all have popped up recently:…

Except that in this case you can just go to your doctor and get your vitamin D level tested. Then you adjust your dosage as needed to reach the recommended blood concentration. Adequate vitamin D levels are the subject of a little controversy [0], but I don't think it is a fad to consider that people need a certain level of vitamin D.

[0]https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/vitamin-d-whats-right-le...

Alternative thoughts on adequate vitamin D: https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/i-tested-my-vitamin-d-level-...

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#54

Post by loorinm »

ravenstine wrote: post #37

I just wish that people who get infected would wear a freaking mask when going out in public. I've heard that masks don't do much for people who aren't infected, but I imagine a mask would catch a lot of the droplets that come out of someone's mouth when they cough. I've never been more glad to live alone.

The catch to this is there is substantial reason to believe that non-exposure can actually make you more subsceptible later on, so it’s better to just get the flu to stay on pace with antigens for future strains.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#55

Post by bluetwo »

framebit wrote: post #19

Personal anecdata about this flu season. I got the flu shot. My spouse did not. They ended up getting the full-blown flu with 103 degree fever and a positive flu test at the doctor. I, on the other hand, felt kind of crappy but I wasn't knocked on my feet and my temperature was normal the whole time. I asked our doctor if I essentially had a milder version of the flu because I got the shot and he said that was basica…

Same thing. Got the shot. Got the flu. It was annoying but didn't need a trip to the doctor or hospital.

A friend without shot who got the flu at the same NYE party as I did ended up needing to go to the doctor to get tests and tamiflu.

Interestingly, the doc was able to test for the specific strain (#2) and they were also entered into a national database.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#56

Post by YokoZar »

VohuMana wrote: post #25
tbatchelli wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the relationship be between Vit D and this (or any) flu?

I'd love to know the answer to this, if there is one. Anecdotally: I have seen a couple studies pop up recently talking about how daily value of vitamin D has been wrong for a long time. This makes me think taking vitamin D might be the new fad medical thing to do, kinda like how going gluten free was the big thing a couple years ago. For transparency I have not read all of these but they all have popped up recently:…

There have also been randomized controlled trials of Vitamin D vs placebo measuring flu rates. This is one meta-analysis I found: http://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#57

Post by loorinm »

newfoundglory wrote: post #50
GuiA wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true, but sadly not going to work is only an option for the more privileged in the USA. A waiter paid minimum wage + tips struggling to pay for cost of living/child care/debt/medical expenses/etc is likely to go to work anyway, putting the health of potentially hundreds of people at risk. EDIT: 1 hour later, currently sitting at -1 - if you disagree so much that you feel the need to downvote, please expla…

Very true - this argument helped pass mandatory sick leave entitlements in Seattle recently (I think it just came into effect).

Unfortunately no mandatory sick leave will affect the majority of workers who are contingent, temporary, or otherwise even more at risk of losing pay and firing if they(we) go home sick. I had H3N2 last week and I came to work because I was told I risked being fired if I didn’t. Everyone in the office hated it but I didn’t want to lose my job.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#58

Post by ProfessorLayton »

opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

As someone who didn't have any kind of health insurance growing up, and had both parents working for hourly wages, I would like to add that it is a little more complex than "irresponsibility".

My working-class parents would have certainly felt the impact on their budget spending ~$50/person for a shot that might not even work that year, not to mention the money lost by not working to go get the shot.

I think people should get their flu shots, but am a bit more hesitant to judge those who don't.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#59

Post by uncoder0 »

loorinm wrote: post #54
ravenstine wrote: post #37

I just wish that people who get infected would wear a freaking mask when going out in public. I've heard that masks don't do much for people who aren't infected, but I imagine a mask would catch a lot of the droplets that come out of someone's mouth when they cough. I've never been more glad to live alone.

The catch to this is there is substantial reason to believe that non-exposure can actually make you more subsceptible later on, so it’s better to just get the flu to stay on pace with antigens for future strains.

Does the flu vaccine count as exposure?

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#60

Post by smileysteve »

smileysteve wrote: post #52
nonbel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gives an inaccurate assessment of the cost. Obviously you are paying for the shot by paying more for insurance (either directly or via taxes or via taxes spent on that rather than some other government service you could take advantage of). My point is that you can't say something "is worth it" without considering both costs AND benefits (I have recently seen friends get so ill they almost got fired because docto…

> Obviously you are paying for the shot by paying more for insurance Wrong calculation. The insurance company is trying to SAVE expenditures of doctors and hospitalizations; therefore, customers getting the flu shot cost the insurer less. Even further for herd immunity (the pt), 1 insured getting the flu shot might reduce 4-8 others from getting the flu.

And in the case of workplace or family, are likely covered by the same insurer. There's probably some patient n with diminishing returns for the modern tech workplace, where, if they live alone, commute alone, visit no family, and have no onsites.
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