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“The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

scientificamerican.com

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Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#21

Post by Raphmedia »

opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

Not nitpicking or trying to be an idiot but shouldn't it be the vulnerable individuals that get the shot?

It seems that the only people I know who get vaccinated for something as benign as the flu are: nurses, teachers, children, elderly.

Everyone else simply take one or two day off during flu season in the event that they do catch it (most don't).

Am I missing something? I have never been vaccinated for it and asking around me, nobody at my current place of employment did either.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#23

Post by polskibus »

tbatchelli wrote: post #6
polskibus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, have you taken Vitamin D supplements before for a longer period of time? If yes - what was the daily dosage ? Have you taken flu shots at the beginning of the season?

What would the relationship be between Vit D and this (or any) flu?

There was a study linked on HN related to an error in Vitamin D dosage recommendations. Original article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28768407/

Vitamin D is relevant to proper functioning of immune system, however it seems that it is hard to find "the right amount" for everyone as it depends on several factors.

I'm wondering if Vitamin D intake can improve response against recurring infections like flu, sometimes they can bring you down several times in a season, so it takes quite a heavy toll on productivity and mood.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#24

Post by lutorm »

Jach wrote: post #18
opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

Doesn't that just raise the question of why an at-risk elderly person wouldn't get the flu shot to protect themselves from all the people who don't? I've heard this irresponsibility argument a lot, I understand it, but I think it's overblown. Herd immunity works best when the vaccine is actually effective. For flu vaccines, every year they're not very effective.

Even if they do, since the vaccine is not 100% effective it still helps if other people are vaccinated since it decreases the chance of them getting it in the first place.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#25

Post by VohuMana »

tbatchelli wrote: post #6
polskibus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, have you taken Vitamin D supplements before for a longer period of time? If yes - what was the daily dosage ? Have you taken flu shots at the beginning of the season?

What would the relationship be between Vit D and this (or any) flu?

I'd love to know the answer to this, if there is one.

Anecdotally: I have seen a couple studies pop up recently talking about how daily value of vitamin D has been wrong for a long time. This makes me think taking vitamin D might be the new fad medical thing to do, kinda like how going gluten free was the big thing a couple years ago.

For transparency I have not read all of these but they all have popped up recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16062697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15877289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15687217

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#26

Post by nonbel »

opportune wrote: post #20
nonbel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Even though the vaccine isn't that effective this year, as long as its at least somewhat effective in mitigating transmission, it's worth it" How can you tell if something is "worth it" without considering any costs (side effects, price, time, etc)?

I suppose if it's only 0.001% effective it would not be worth it, but that's really a pedantic nitpick because we know it's not that ineffective. The vaccine this year is about 32% effective against H3N2 in the US and 39% effective overall [0]. That's not amazing but it's definitely "worth it" for a few dollars and 5 minutes at a CVS. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht...

Basically your argument is that the costs of getting the vaccine are so negligible they can be ignored?

What about side effects? https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/general.htm

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#27

Post by wes-k »

Raphmedia wrote: post #21
opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

Not nitpicking or trying to be an idiot but shouldn't it be the vulnerable individuals that get the shot? It seems that the only people I know who get vaccinated for something as benign as the flu are: nurses, teachers, children, elderly. Everyone else simply take one or two day off during flu season in the event that they do catch it (most don't). Am I missing something? I have never been vaccinated for it and askin…

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/whoshouldvax.htm

> Children younger than 6 months are too young to get a flu shot.

> People with severe, life-threatening allergies to flu vaccine or any ingredient in the vaccine. This might include gelatin, antibiotics, or other ingredients. See Special Considerations Regarding Egg Allergy for more information about egg allergies and flu vaccine.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#28

Post by lutorm »

opportune wrote: post #20
nonbel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Even though the vaccine isn't that effective this year, as long as its at least somewhat effective in mitigating transmission, it's worth it" How can you tell if something is "worth it" without considering any costs (side effects, price, time, etc)?

I suppose if it's only 0.001% effective it would not be worth it, but that's really a pedantic nitpick because we know it's not that ineffective. The vaccine this year is about 32% effective against H3N2 in the US and 39% effective overall [0]. That's not amazing but it's definitely "worth it" for a few dollars and 5 minutes at a CVS. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.ht...

All I had to do was take time out of my day to go to the pharmacy, copay with my insurance was $0. Which just makes sense from a financial point of view for the insurance companies, too.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#29

Post by opportune »

Raphmedia wrote: post #21
opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

Not nitpicking or trying to be an idiot but shouldn't it be the vulnerable individuals that get the shot? It seems that the only people I know who get vaccinated for something as benign as the flu are: nurses, teachers, children, elderly. Everyone else simply take one or two day off during flu season in the event that they do catch it (most don't). Am I missing something? I have never been vaccinated for it and askin…

Vaccines aren't perfect - you can get vaccinated for certain diseases/strains (such as the flu) and still get them. It's the aggregate of vaccines that stops transmission and prevents disease outbreaks. That's what a lot of people (including other people that replied to my comment) don't understand about vaccinations - they reduce the chance of acquiring a disease. It's still entirely possible to get vaccinated, spend a lot of time around infected people, and get sick.

The entire point of herd immunity is to make disease less likely to spread between individuals so that outbreaks don't occur in the first place. Even though the vaccine this year is less effective than normal at preventing the spread of flu, it's still pretty effective, and in a way that means that collectively it's more important to get vaccinated this year.

Re: “The Problem Child of Seasonal Flu”: Beware This Winter’s Virus

#30

Post by apendleton »

Raphmedia wrote: post #21
opportune wrote: post #13

This article is good and reminded me of a key issue: herd immunity. I wish I could explain to more of my friends how irresponsible it is to not get the flu shot - they view it as simply an individual decision like "I'm choosing to not get the shot knowing full well I might get sick" - but they don't think of the possibility that if they do get sick, they may play a part in infecting other , more vulnerable people, su…

Not nitpicking or trying to be an idiot but shouldn't it be the vulnerable individuals that get the shot? It seems that the only people I know who get vaccinated for something as benign as the flu are: nurses, teachers, children, elderly. Everyone else simply take one or two day off during flu season in the event that they do catch it (most don't). Am I missing something? I have never been vaccinated for it and askin…

Some nontrivial percentage of the time, though, the vaccine doesn't take, and this becomes more likely in immunocompromised people (e.g., the elderly). Those people might end up protected from ending up getting infected even though the vaccine won't end up helping them if the people they interact with are also vaccinated and had better luck.

As for nobody at your place of employment getting vaccinated: these days that seems pretty surprising to me, but maybe it's a regional thing or something? My office brings in a nurse to do everybody at once.

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