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Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

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Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#31

Post by vetinari »

fyfy18 wrote: post #23
Const-me wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but quite a lot of modern desktop software still comes with 32-bit binaries. Even Microsoft’s own software: visual studio and skype are still 32 bit, office has both versions…

There is still a 32bit version of Windows 10: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Explains-Why-Window... I wonder why they didn’t push fat binaries like Apple did?

Because 64-bit Windows doesn't run 16-bit binaries, 32-bit one does. Fat binaries aren't going to change that.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#32

Post by pjmlp »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29
pjmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win32 is going the way of Carbon even if it takes a couple of years more, like it or not. Desktop bridge is just a migration tool to migrate Win32 into the store, and help developers slowly migrate parts of the apps into UWP ones. The majority of new APIs are UWP only, with userspace drivers, DirectX 12, ReFS being the notable exceptions. Of course you can always switch to GNU/Linux for Vulkan games.

Steam doesn't play ball with the Microsoft app-store that UWP insists on. That's pretty much a game-over for UWP in the gaming world.

Not everyone is on Steam.

Everyone I know still buys from retail, as they care to have something physical.

Also UWP has the XBOX titles, and if Microsoft really wanted they could just pull all their titles out of Steam, assuming whatever contracts they have in place make it possible.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#33

Post by tinus_hn »

pjmlp wrote: post #5
brann0 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, most of us aren't interested in UWP bloat and just want to build good old desktop applications.

Win32 is going the way of Carbon even if it takes a couple of years more, like it or not. Desktop bridge is just a migration tool to migrate Win32 into the store, and help developers slowly migrate parts of the apps into UWP ones. The majority of new APIs are UWP only, with userspace drivers, DirectX 12, ReFS being the notable exceptions. Of course you can always switch to GNU/Linux for Vulkan games.

Except Microsoft is not Apple and even Apple did not nearly succeed in getting developers to use their App Store on the desktop. They did get developers to use Cocoa but that is clearly much better than Carbon and Apple worked hard to make it do everything Carbon does.

The selling point for developing on Windows is that you can mostly do anything and the Store is a sandbox. Developers aren’t going to want to get into the sandbox. And that’s ignoring the situation Microsoft has created where nobody wants to invest in new platforms because Microsoft keeps abandoning them.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#34

Post by flohofwoe »

pjmlp wrote: post #32
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam doesn't play ball with the Microsoft app-store that UWP insists on. That's pretty much a game-over for UWP in the gaming world.

Not everyone is on Steam. Everyone I know still buys from retail, as they care to have something physical. Also UWP has the XBOX titles, and if Microsoft really wanted they could just pull all their titles out of Steam, assuming whatever contracts they have in place make it possible.

Typical Xbox games aren't implemented on UWP though, it's just a way for hobbyists to get small apps running on the Xbox without a costly developer account and devkits (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/). The restriction of Microsoft games to the MS App Store is an entirely political decision. I'm certain the actual developers down in the trenches would be more than happy to code against plain Win32+D3D12 (or D3D11) and distribute their games through Steam.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#35

Post by tux1968 »

It really sucks that Dvxk has to warn against the dangers of using it for online gaming:

"Manipulation of Direct3D libraries in multi-player games may be considered cheating and can get your account banned. This may also apply to single-player games with an embedded or dedicated multiplayer portion. Use at your own risk."

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#36

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

flohofwoe wrote: post #26
pjmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win32 is going the way of Carbon even if it takes a couple of years more, like it or not. Desktop bridge is just a migration tool to migrate Win32 into the store, and help developers slowly migrate parts of the apps into UWP ones. The majority of new APIs are UWP only, with userspace drivers, DirectX 12, ReFS being the notable exceptions. Of course you can always switch to GNU/Linux for Vulkan games.

The question is whether Windows will die sooner than UWP will be fixed to become an acceptable replacement for Win32. The main reason why Windows is still relevant (even despite Microsoft's desperate attempts to kill it) is Steam games and some legacy software that hasn't been ported to Electron yet. Forcing new apps to use UWP in its current broken state can only accelerate the death of desktop Windows.

The only way Windows dies is if the Desktop dies.

As awful as Windows 10's user experience is, it is still miles better than any of the (far too many) Linux Desktops. Linux Desktop evangelists who only ever develop web software and basically use the browser as their OS will continue to scratch their heads and wonder why their argument of "your use case isn't what we designed for!" isn't convincing anyone to switch.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#37

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

pjmlp wrote: post #32
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam doesn't play ball with the Microsoft app-store that UWP insists on. That's pretty much a game-over for UWP in the gaming world.

Not everyone is on Steam. Everyone I know still buys from retail, as they care to have something physical. Also UWP has the XBOX titles, and if Microsoft really wanted they could just pull all their titles out of Steam, assuming whatever contracts they have in place make it possible.

> Everyone I know still buys from retail

It would seem that "Everyone" you know is not a very representative sample then.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#38

Post by MaxBarraclough »

pjmlp wrote: post #32
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam doesn't play ball with the Microsoft app-store that UWP insists on. That's pretty much a game-over for UWP in the gaming world.

Not everyone is on Steam. Everyone I know still buys from retail, as they care to have something physical. Also UWP has the XBOX titles, and if Microsoft really wanted they could just pull all their titles out of Steam, assuming whatever contracts they have in place make it possible.

> Not everyone is on Steam.

They don't need to be. Steam is a serious player in games distribution, and if avoiding certain APIs is necessary to publish on Steam, that's what developers will do. (Or rather, it's what they will continue to do.)

Same for uPlay, Origin, and whatever it was that Rockstar made. No-one uses Microsoft's app-store for distributing retail games, and that isn't about to change, even if Microsoft hold their own technologies hostage.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#39

Post by pjmlp »

tinus_hn wrote: post #33
pjmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win32 is going the way of Carbon even if it takes a couple of years more, like it or not. Desktop bridge is just a migration tool to migrate Win32 into the store, and help developers slowly migrate parts of the apps into UWP ones. The majority of new APIs are UWP only, with userspace drivers, DirectX 12, ReFS being the notable exceptions. Of course you can always switch to GNU/Linux for Vulkan games.

Except Microsoft is not Apple and even Apple did not nearly succeed in getting developers to use their App Store on the desktop. They did get developers to use Cocoa but that is clearly much better than Carbon and Apple worked hard to make it do everything Carbon does. The selling point for developing on Windows is that you can mostly do anything and the Store is a sandbox. Developers aren’t going to want to get into…

Apple and Google together have abandoned more tech than Microsoft.

Re: Dvxk: A Vulkan-Based D3D11 Implementation for Linux with Wine

#40

Post by pjmlp »

jhasse wrote: post #28
littlestymaar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some legacy software that hasn't been ported to Electron yet. «Let's port Photoshop to electron» not

I also doubt that it'll be ported to UWP any time soon.

Adobe is already adopting UWP, with Adobe XD being the first product for the store.

http://www.adobe.com/products/xd.html

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