Inside Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#201

Post by paulie_a » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:00 AM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #47

paulie_a wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self scan lines tend to be filled with people incapable of the basic mechanics of using the technology. I prefer to use them. But if I see five people in the self scan line and ten in the normal line...I go for the longer line and am out the door in less time

Sometimes it's the machines. Walmart, I'm looking at you and your recent "upgrade" to what feels like an Electron app running in a VM on a raspberry pi. Button presses take whole seconds to register and loading a different page (e.g. payment or product code entry) takes tens of seconds. It's demoralizing.

Interesting.. Previously Walmart was the best for scanners in my opinion. It was instant had a clear notification the item was scanned without beeping.

It's off topic but I am annoyed that every device has to beep at me constantly

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#202

Post by int_19h » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #41

I know the standard reaction from a lot of HN folk will be to celebrate this progress: it's faster, more efficient, and no one likes to waste time waiting in line. Still, though, I think Amazon's automation of the retail experience is helping to create a society where there is even less real social interaction, and I think it's a factor (if even a small one currently) in the increasing tribalism in American society.…

Or maybe we're just returning back to normal. Consider: historically, in hunter-gatherer societies for example, everyone knows everyone, and that's their social circle. You don't really interact with random strangers, except in very few, usually very formalized ways (or warfare).

Compare this to our existing society: most of the people that you're expected - in fact, required (at work etc) - to interact with, are strangers. Most of our communication protocols deal with various aspects of that.

With this kind tech, we retreat back to our comfy bubbles of familiar people that we've known for a long time, and away from the strangers.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#203

Post by excalibur » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #8

eloff wrote: post #2

No shopping carts? Maybe for a convenience store that's ok. I shop at Costco without a car, and I bring two large carry bags. But I don't carry them around inside the store unless I'm just buying one or two things. I buy a lot of heavy things (oh god those watermelons, never again.) And I don't want my arms getting tired in the store. It's bad enough for the 1.5km I have to walk back to my place.

For the first time in history we have a grocery store without cashiers, and you’re nitpicking that there’s no shopping carts?

Without carts your customers can only purchase as many items as they can physically carry. As the business owner, you are of course free to not provide any, if you hate profit.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#204

Post by janekm » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

There is a company opening similar types of supermarkets and corner stores in China. But they have taken it a step further, there aren’t even any gates. The experience feels really surreal... you just pick something off the shelf, scan it with the app, pay in the app (helped by the seamless mobile payment services in China), and walk out. The first time I tried it I couldn’t help finding an employee to show them I paid. The second time I just walked out after paying, but it actually felt uncomfortably like shoplifting (similar to what’s described in this article).

I presume the shops are set up as a sort of VC-funded experiment that will accept a high level of theft in return for a lot of useful data and early positioning in this type of retail.

The other interesting aspect is that the larger of the stores is set up very much as an experiential shopping environment, including a meat counter with chefs that will cook a steak or burger for you, and the same for sea food (you can buy shrimp or a lobster and they will cook it for you so you can eat it in the store, it is very popular).

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#205

Post by anilshanbhag » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

samwillis wrote: post #169

Waitrose in the UK has had something called "Quick Check" for maybe the last 10 years. On the way into the store, you swipe your "My Waitrose" card and collect a barcode scanner. You then scan and bag everything on the way around and return your scanner to a dedicated terminal (which generally have no queue) and very quickly pay. More recently they added the ability to use your smartphone as the scanner so that you d…

The system will not work in many places. It is based on honor code i.e, no body will take an item without scanning it. Most supermarkets have razor thin margins - add theft and they will not be able to make money.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#206

Post by canttestthis » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

tuna-piano wrote: post #49

I love this - shows why Amazon keeps growing. Seems like the total investment in this store/technology is probably in the single digit digit millions (or maybe low double digit). If it doesn't work? Lose, ~$10 million. But if it works there's likely huge upside. It's just a smart bet for a big company. Sometimes your bets turn into AWS, and sometimes they turn into the Fire phone. Most companies I've worked at are ve…

> Seems like the total investment in this store/technology is probably in the single digit digit millions (or maybe low double digit).

I honestly think you're underestimating this by an order of magnitude. Salaries, market research, prototype hardware for a project of this type in $10 million? Not a chance.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#207

Post by aembleton » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

samwillis wrote: post #169

Waitrose in the UK has had something called "Quick Check" for maybe the last 10 years. On the way into the store, you swipe your "My Waitrose" card and collect a barcode scanner. You then scan and bag everything on the way around and return your scanner to a dedicated terminal (which generally have no queue) and very quickly pay. More recently they added the ability to use your smartphone as the scanner so that you d…

Safeway in the UK had it at some of their stores 20 years ago. I think it all got removed when they were acquired by Morrisons. Here's an article from 1998 talking about how they were introduced in 1995!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/shoppers-to-check-out-sup...

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#208

Post by mulmen » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:14 AM UTC

isitwhatitis wrote: post #195

rainbowmverse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Most HN users live in urban areas. I didn't know YC published HN's demographics. Do you have a link?

>80% of the American population lived in what is called an urban area in the 2010 census [1]. While their definition of urban is looser than you might use, still >60% lived in 'cities'[2]. Unless the wealthier, more connected, more educated readership of Hacker News strongly bucks every trend suggested by their demographics, it's pretty safe to say we mostly live in urban areas. [1] https://www.citylab.com/equity/201…

How do you know HN is made up of only Americans?

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#209

Post by morgante » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

janekm wrote: post #204

There is a company opening similar types of supermarkets and corner stores in China. But they have taken it a step further, there aren’t even any gates. The experience feels really surreal... you just pick something off the shelf, scan it with the app, pay in the app (helped by the seamless mobile payment services in China), and walk out. The first time I tried it I couldn’t help finding an employee to show them I pa…

> But they have taken it a step further, there aren’t even any gates... scan it with the app

I consider that strictly inferior, not "one step forward." The genius of Amazon Go is that no scanning is involved. You just take things off the shelf and they're automatically charged to you as you walk out.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#210

Post by TheEzEzz » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

Guest9812398 wrote: post #16

makomk wrote: post #5

"Amazon won’t say much about how the system works, other than to say it involves sophisticated computer vision and machine learning software." Why do I have the feeling this probably actually translates to humans staring at video feeds a lot of the time?

I imagine it's similar to the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeS8TJwBAFs

Jordan from Standard Cognition here (that's a video of our autonomous checkout system). From what we've read about Amazon it sounds like we're approaching things very differently. Amazon uses sensor fusion, including lots of non-vision sensors (floor sensors, shelf sensors, potentially RFID as a supplemental signal). We do everything from ceiling cameras, nothing else. That makes the system harder to build, but much easier to deploy to lots of existing stores. Amazon's solution requires a hefty remodeling.