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Inside Amazon Go

nytimes.com

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Re: Inside Amazon Go

#41

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I know the standard reaction from a lot of HN folk will be to celebrate this progress: it's faster, more efficient, and no one likes to waste time waiting in line.

Still, though, I think Amazon's automation of the retail experience is helping to create a society where there is even less real social interaction, and I think it's a factor (if even a small one currently) in the increasing tribalism in American society.

Throughout history, "the marketplace" had been one of the major centers of interpersonal interaction, and these days for many people it's possibly to completely avoid ever having to go to the store. I'm not sure that's a great thing.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#42

Post by sundaeofshock »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #20
dawhizkid wrote: post #12

Anyone in NYC who regularly shops at Trader Joes or Whole Foods knows how badly this is needed. There are literally two employees at Trader Joes whose job it is to hold a sign that says "End of Line" because the line is always almost out the door on weekends and weekday evenings.

But won't someone please think of the poor, unemployed "end of line" sign holders? Whatever will they do!

Get some torches and pitchforks? Seriously, what do you think will happen when we have millions who lose their jobs due to automation?

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#44

Post by taurath »

wickawic wrote: post #21
chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #7

Given Amazon's knowledge in warehouse operations and supply chain, I wouldn't guess they plan to use this technology widespread in grocery stores. At that point, they could take a simpler approach than all the cameras and computer vision, by instead treating a grocery store like a warehouse or vending machine (no human shoppers like other grocers today who offer delivery). People enter their orders online, and stop b…

I don’t see this being viable. Most people shop with at least a small amount of whimsy. This is why end-caps and samples and grocery store psychology exist. And I think this is a feature, not a bug: there is something satisfying about picking out the right bananas, realizing Brussels sprouts would go well with dinner, substituting ingredients on the fly, etc. the online shopping experience has none of this, which is…

The whole store is designed for you to run back and forth finding and discovering items.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#45

Post by threatofrain »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #41

I know the standard reaction from a lot of HN folk will be to celebrate this progress: it's faster, more efficient, and no one likes to waste time waiting in line. Still, though, I think Amazon's automation of the retail experience is helping to create a society where there is even less real social interaction, and I think it's a factor (if even a small one currently) in the increasing tribalism in American society.…

The marketplace today is hardly the place for meaningful interaction, whether with employees or other shoppers. What it seems like to me is unpaid emotional labor. To have interesting social time, we need less hours at work and more public (non-commercial) spaces to meet. For example, where are children supposed to meet?

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#46

Post by dennisdamenace »

threatofrain wrote: post #45
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #41

I know the standard reaction from a lot of HN folk will be to celebrate this progress: it's faster, more efficient, and no one likes to waste time waiting in line. Still, though, I think Amazon's automation of the retail experience is helping to create a society where there is even less real social interaction, and I think it's a factor (if even a small one currently) in the increasing tribalism in American society.…

The marketplace today is hardly the place for meaningful interaction, whether with employees or other shoppers. What it seems like to me is unpaid emotional labor. To have interesting social time, we need less hours at work and more public (non-commercial) spaces to meet. For example, where are children supposed to meet?

I often learn a lot at the check out lines here in Oregon. People chat, exchange information. Often banal, sometimes valuable. Always nice.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#47

Post by jjoonathan »

paulie_a wrote: post #36
iagooar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use these people as cashiers? I wonder if this endless line thing is something typical in the US. I've been to many European countries and other than before Christmas, you never feel like staying in line is something to even think of, because the longest you usually wait is maybe 5 minutes. In Switzerland, now that in many shops you get to scan the cart yourself (after shopping or during it) there is just no…

Self scan lines tend to be filled with people incapable of the basic mechanics of using the technology. I prefer to use them. But if I see five people in the self scan line and ten in the normal line...I go for the longer line and am out the door in less time

Sometimes it's the machines. Walmart, I'm looking at you and your recent "upgrade" to what feels like an Electron app running in a VM on a raspberry pi. Button presses take whole seconds to register and loading a different page (e.g. payment or product code entry) takes tens of seconds. It's demoralizing.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#48

Post by cle »

makomk wrote: post #5

"Amazon won’t say much about how the system works, other than to say it involves sophisticated computer vision and machine learning software." Why do I have the feeling this probably actually translates to humans staring at video feeds a lot of the time?

Even if this is the case, it gives them a more straightforward path to incrementally improving the automation behind the scenes without having any visible customer impact.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#49

Post by tuna-piano »

I love this - shows why Amazon keeps growing.

Seems like the total investment in this store/technology is probably in the single digit digit millions (or maybe low double digit).

If it doesn't work? Lose, ~$10 million. But if it works there's likely huge upside. It's just a smart bet for a big company. Sometimes your bets turn into AWS, and sometimes they turn into the Fire phone. Most companies I've worked at are very risk averse, and failure on startup type projects is not really accepted the same way.

The checkout system was the failed promise of RFID[1], and maybe the future is still with RFID. But maybe it's with vision, and if it is, then Amazon seems well positioned.

BTW, the rudimentary math I'm doing. Let's say the store saves two checkout people, working on average 20 hours a day for 365 days a year, who each average cost of $15/hr. $15/hr 20 hours365 days*2 people = $219k savings per year. How much does the system cost to setup in a new store? How much extra effort is there to keep food items organized? If you need someone checking IDs, managing errors, etc, is there really savings? Maybe the only way this really scales is if you can do this for full size stores?

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#50

Post by jjoonathan »

bcherny wrote: post #40
arebop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because we have no scalable mechanism in society to provide for the basic needs of the "emancipated." Sure, in theory the automation yields a surplus, but in practice how do we actually allocate the surplus? Not to the economically useless, that's for sure.

What do you mean? There’s a lot of work on this by various economists, including modern socialists like Picketty. The big ideas are distributing ownership of things (goods, land, means of production), capital, and education in a way that is fair (definitions vary) and doesn’t disincentivize production.

It's easy to come up with ideas, it's nearly impossible to muster the political capital to actually try them.
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