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Inside Amazon Go

nytimes.com

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Re: Inside Amazon Go

#31

Post by devoply »

panarky wrote: post #19

There were a little over 3.5 million cashiers in the United States in 2016 — and some of their jobs may be in jeopardy if the technology behind Amazon Go eventually spreads. Why is this the knee-jerk response to technological progress? True progress isn't forcing millions of people into low-wage routine work. True progress would emancipate people from this drudgery entirely. Isaac Asimov questioned why the goal of bo…

The economic system is a cycle. What is produced is then consumed. It is consumed by using the same money which is paid for its production. Without that cycle of production and consumption the system is short circuited. In that you have products, but no logical way to distribute them and therefore no reason for their production. Therefore consumption drops and less products are demanded by the system. Therefore less labour is used and required. That's a downward spiral of employment the end result of which is that only things which are necessary are produced like clothing, food, and shelter and only enough money is in the system to provide those things. The only way to "fix" this is to short circuit the system again and provide money to people who have not earned it so they may buy goods. But how do you decide how much money everyone is entitled to so that social classes exist? You don't. Everyone is the same, so everyone is pretty much low class barely making more than poverty. Like for instance if you do this globally, everyone would be living in poverty as there isn't that money money or products to go around to make everyone rich. There is simply not that much money in the system meaning that there isn't that much production to make everyone rich.

How about a future where the masses live like Amish, but with more free time. Sure you can play... but exactly what does that mean is a different question. I imagine housing developments in rural areas that cost very little and very little economic activity takes place there. Like for instance say small houses for 1 or 2 people for $25k in the middle of nowhere which you can support on your 20k minimum income. Place provides very few municipal services as well to keep the costs down.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#32

Post by dawhizkid »

iagooar wrote: post #24
dawhizkid wrote: post #12

Anyone in NYC who regularly shops at Trader Joes or Whole Foods knows how badly this is needed. There are literally two employees at Trader Joes whose job it is to hold a sign that says "End of Line" because the line is always almost out the door on weekends and weekday evenings.

Why not use these people as cashiers? I wonder if this endless line thing is something typical in the US. I've been to many European countries and other than before Christmas, you never feel like staying in line is something to even think of, because the longest you usually wait is maybe 5 minutes. In Switzerland, now that in many shops you get to scan the cart yourself (after shopping or during it) there is just no…

To be fair this is mostly just a crazy nyc thing. I’ve never been to a Trader Joe’s elsewhere like the Trader Joe’s in NYC. They must be the top grossing stores by far. It’s always packed.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#33

Post by vogelito »

panarky wrote: post #19

There were a little over 3.5 million cashiers in the United States in 2016 — and some of their jobs may be in jeopardy if the technology behind Amazon Go eventually spreads. Why is this the knee-jerk response to technological progress? True progress isn't forcing millions of people into low-wage routine work. True progress would emancipate people from this drudgery entirely. Isaac Asimov questioned why the goal of bo…

Loved this comment. What does real progress look like? Paradigm-shifts take a lot of time to happen but need to start somewhere.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#34

Post by devoply »

rland12 wrote: post #28
panarky wrote: post #19

There were a little over 3.5 million cashiers in the United States in 2016 — and some of their jobs may be in jeopardy if the technology behind Amazon Go eventually spreads. Why is this the knee-jerk response to technological progress? True progress isn't forcing millions of people into low-wage routine work. True progress would emancipate people from this drudgery entirely. Isaac Asimov questioned why the goal of bo…

Workers whose jobs we have automated did not become "emancipated." They were completely forgotten by society, government, and the private enterprise as the spoils went to the top 20%. What about this particular shearing indicates a difference in the way "progress" is made?

Well once those jobs are lost, then everyone is looking to retrain in the few industries which still have jobs. But then that creates massive labour which drops the cost of labour down to poverty. Another downward spiral. Universities will probably stop offering degrees in things like accounting pretty soon as there will be very little use for accounting degrees.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#35

Post by akhilcacharya »

eloff wrote: post #2

No shopping carts? Maybe for a convenience store that's ok. I shop at Costco without a car, and I bring two large carry bags. But I don't carry them around inside the store unless I'm just buying one or two things. I buy a lot of heavy things (oh god those watermelons, never again.) And I don't want my arms getting tired in the store. It's bad enough for the 1.5km I have to walk back to my place.

There’s not enough space for shopping carts to make sense.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#36

Post by paulie_a »

iagooar wrote: post #24
dawhizkid wrote: post #12

Anyone in NYC who regularly shops at Trader Joes or Whole Foods knows how badly this is needed. There are literally two employees at Trader Joes whose job it is to hold a sign that says "End of Line" because the line is always almost out the door on weekends and weekday evenings.

Why not use these people as cashiers? I wonder if this endless line thing is something typical in the US. I've been to many European countries and other than before Christmas, you never feel like staying in line is something to even think of, because the longest you usually wait is maybe 5 minutes. In Switzerland, now that in many shops you get to scan the cart yourself (after shopping or during it) there is just no…

Self scan lines tend to be filled with people incapable of the basic mechanics of using the technology. I prefer to use them. But if I see five people in the self scan line and ten in the normal line...I go for the longer line and am out the door in less time

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#38

Post by paulie_a »

chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #7

Given Amazon's knowledge in warehouse operations and supply chain, I wouldn't guess they plan to use this technology widespread in grocery stores. At that point, they could take a simpler approach than all the cameras and computer vision, by instead treating a grocery store like a warehouse or vending machine (no human shoppers like other grocers today who offer delivery). People enter their orders online, and stop b…

Amazon sort of does that with freshly. Same with instacart

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#39

Post by sundaeofshock »

dawhizkid wrote: post #32
iagooar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use these people as cashiers? I wonder if this endless line thing is something typical in the US. I've been to many European countries and other than before Christmas, you never feel like staying in line is something to even think of, because the longest you usually wait is maybe 5 minutes. In Switzerland, now that in many shops you get to scan the cart yourself (after shopping or during it) there is just no…

To be fair this is mostly just a crazy nyc thing. I’ve never been to a Trader Joe’s elsewhere like the Trader Joe’s in NYC. They must be the top grossing stores by far. It’s always packed.

The Trader Joe’s at Fifth & Market is almost always packed. The line for the cashier ends up running through the aisles and it can take 15 minutes to see one of the 16 cashiers on duty. This, in a small-format store with no dedicated parking.

Re: Inside Amazon Go

#40

Post by bcherny »

arebop wrote: post #22
panarky wrote: post #19

There were a little over 3.5 million cashiers in the United States in 2016 — and some of their jobs may be in jeopardy if the technology behind Amazon Go eventually spreads. Why is this the knee-jerk response to technological progress? True progress isn't forcing millions of people into low-wage routine work. True progress would emancipate people from this drudgery entirely. Isaac Asimov questioned why the goal of bo…

It is because we have no scalable mechanism in society to provide for the basic needs of the "emancipated." Sure, in theory the automation yields a surplus, but in practice how do we actually allocate the surplus? Not to the economically useless, that's for sure.

What do you mean? There’s a lot of work on this by various economists, including modern socialists like Picketty. The big ideas are distributing ownership of things (goods, land, means of production), capital, and education in a way that is fair (definitions vary) and doesn’t disincentivize production.
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