Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers • Hacker News Board

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#41

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #33

DoreenMichele wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some smokers are self medicating for mental health issues: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/campaign/tips/diseases/depressio... Before you say that is also justification for rejecting them, be aware that some folks on HN are vocal about the need to destigmatize mental health issues generally and plenty of very successful people have mental health issues.

Which, in all fairness, is a big red flag where joint business ventures are concerned... what exactly is your point?

If they are self medicating for something, their performance may be worse if they quit. The optimal answer is to resolve it without drugs of any sort. But that optimal answer is really hard to achieve and is not considered a realistic expectation in many cases.

Do you drink coffee? Coca Cola products? Tea?

All of those can also medicate for an unrecognized health issue.

Do you exercise regularly? Eat spicy food? Live a spartan life?

Again, every last one of those can be an effective means to manage health problems.

Not managing them is worse. Being judgy about a particular means of management strikes me as close-minded and ill informed.

There is no clear cut difference between lifestyle choices and health management. Lifestyle and diet play a very large role in health outcomes. And that role is not as simple as "Don't do X and you will be healthier."

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #8

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.

[deleted]

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#43

Post by Moru » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #8

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.

You can always steal them.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#44

Post by walshemj » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #38

dmix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. [citation needed] I grew up with plenty of poor high school kids who had no problem finding cigarettes even when the taxes were jacked up on them here in Canada. I know many of them as adults who continued to smoke even as the price has continued to climb over the last 10yrs. I've never heard anyone say they quit…

Citation: "Most studies found that raising cigarette prices through increased taxes is a highly effective measure for reducing smoking among youth, young adults, and persons of low socioeconomic status" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/

Only works for countries that don't have a large "black" economy and HMRC spends a lot of effort tracking down smuggled tobacco - normally sold in the back bar of the less salubrious pubs.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#45

Post by walshemj » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #14

Iwan-Zotow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the missing data point is ciggies contraband

That would be true if they were measuring sales numbers, but they're asking people if they smoke, which includes those who smoke contraband cigarettes.

"oh yes I buy smuggled goods" said no one ever to a formal survey.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#46

Post by eitland » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

HenryBemis wrote: post #27

Knowing Greeks, they are definitely not "abandoning cigarettes in record numbers". Some do quit smoking, as it is pretty expensive and 70% or the cigarettes price is taxes. But most turn to black-market cigarettes and tobacco.

This seesm to indicate otherwise: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16195566

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

chimen wrote: post #32

baumbart wrote: post #17

I would never want to become a business partner with someone who is smoking cigarettes. Why? For me it indicates a lack of intelligence, not being good at dealing with stress and bad long-term thinking. When smoking cigarettes you are paying twice - first when spending money in order to ruin your health, and many years later when you are spending money on health-care in order to fix your ruined health. The Greeks hav…

I find your arguments a bit shallow. I know extraordinary people who like to smoke. How can you say a smoker has a "lack of intelligence" and what makes you think people smoke from stress? I smoke from 16 to 35 and I never did it because of stress (yes I smoked when stressed too) - for me it was that calmness it gave. I could concentrate more than I can now as a non-smoker - I could go deeper and stay there for bigge…

[deleted]

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#48

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable.

The only measure that reliably gets people to stop smoking. Lots of other things can reduce the number of people who start smoking, which is at least as important. There's a reasonable evidence base for a large number of tobacco control measures - banning flavoured products, setting minimum pack sizes, banning advertising and sponsorship, mandating plain packaging etc.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#49

Post by pxeboot » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #8

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.

At least in the US, you can still buy cigarettes really cheap on Indian reservations and states like West Virginia.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#50

Post by icebraining » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #45

icebraining wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be true if they were measuring sales numbers, but they're asking people if they smoke, which includes those who smoke contraband cigarettes.

"oh yes I buy smuggled goods" said no one ever to a formal survey.

Why would you have to say where you get them at all? It's not like they were asking about an illegal drug. What would be the point of lying about whether you smoke?