Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers • Hacker News Board

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#11

Post by exlurker » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

Not only that. Cigging is just not cool anymore, it's looked down upon. At least where I live. But high taxes work, too.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#12

Post by draw_down » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #8

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.

How about, I dunno, Turkey?

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#13

Post by sergers » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

appdrag wrote: post #7

When you have to choose between food on the table and cigarettes in the pocket... I guess it's easy to quit smoking...

As a previous smoker, I could get by without eating much (intake less than 500 calories)

Nicotine and carbon monoxide levels settling provides a similar sensation to hunger, that would be satisfied for a short period with a cigarette. You start confusing this with hunger and default to wanting another smoke.

I could go 16+ hours without eating anything and thinking I am hungry

Also you notice with ex-smokers they tend to gain weight because they are satisfying this sensation by eating more

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#14

Post by icebraining » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

Iwan-Zotow wrote: post #6

theparanoid wrote: post #2

The missing data point is how many Greeks have switched to vaping.

No, the missing data point is ciggies contraband

That would be true if they were measuring sales numbers, but they're asking people if they smoke, which includes those who smoke contraband cigarettes.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#15

Post by xvedejas » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

It does a bit of both. Cigarettes become both more expensive for everyone, and there exists incentive for a black market which is necessarily cheaper than the legitimate market (otherwise why have it?), but still more expensive than a tax-free market (you can't reach the same efficiency as a legal, tax-free market).

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#16

Post by sergers » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

Increased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices.

I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#17

Post by baumbart » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

I would never want to become a business partner with someone who is smoking cigarettes. Why? For me it indicates a lack of intelligence, not being good at dealing with stress and bad long-term thinking. When smoking cigarettes you are paying twice - first when spending money in order to ruin your health, and many years later when you are spending money on health-care in order to fix your ruined health. The Greeks have understood this.

Also, when you are getting closer to an emergency situation than we are normally today, you will also start caring more about your health automatically. That's what evolution has taught us, it is natural behavior. Modern luxury has let us care less about our bodies than we should.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#18

Post by johnchristopher » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #8

felipemnoa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?

Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/nyregion/tobacco-companies...

> The city has argued that the availability of cheaper cigarettes is a public health concern because taxes were in part a way to discourage smoking.

There's also that story about that manfacturer smuggling cigarettes into a country I can't remember to avoid paying taxes.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#19

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

sergers wrote: post #16

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

Increased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices. I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).

Indeed. The only solution is subsidized rehabilitation or elimination of tobacco (the latter I intend to kickstart, to fund the use of CRISPR to gene drive a detrimental gene in tobacco).

If we can do it with mosquitoes, no reason we can’t use it against tobacco.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#20

Post by dmix » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable.

[citation needed]

I grew up with plenty of poor high school kids who had no problem finding cigarettes even when the taxes were jacked up on them here in Canada. I know many of them as adults who continued to smoke even as the price has continued to climb over the last 10yrs.

I've never heard anyone say they quit smoking because it was too expensive. It was merely a perk of quitting. Especially considering it's always been an irrational and escapist habit.

I also smoked for years and I can't imagine the price being $5 vs $11 would have had any effect on my decision. High prices via taxes was merely an additional burden, a burden usually placed on people who are in the most need of money.

The only two major change I've seen in recent years pushing people off cigarettes is a) it's no longer cool and b) e-cigarettes