The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson • Hacker News Board

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#41

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #4

I'm sad that some enthusiastic well meaning lefties often associate Peterson with the extreme right. If anything, this man is radically centrist. It's just that he debunks extreme right wing arguments in 5 sentences instead of the 2 hour long talks he uses to address what he calls neo-marxism. I think people like him might very well help keep disgruntled young men away from the extreme right, by offering a moderate a…

It’s when he refers to so-called “cultural marxism” taking over universities and political correctness being a huge problem that sets off warning bells for me.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#42

Post by apocalypstyx » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

raguuu wrote: post #33

apocalypstyx wrote: post #28

Having been raised in fundamentalist Christianity, Peterson always sets off preliminary warning bells for me: The enemy is all around you. Access to secret "true" knowledge. The world is corrupt. A plan that if you follow correctly will lead to good things. An enemy that alternates between specific and generalistic states. Everything has to be framed through a set of ideological points at all times, which are reitera…

I have similar background and negative experiences, but I don't get the alarm bells but rather makes me appreciate some things I was being reached when young and also sad that the my fundamentalists parents weren't more like him. I'm am atheist as it gets but the Bible studies by him are fascinating. I remember the Bible stories very well but never thought about them in that light.

It's not the Biblical references / usages that bothers me, and that's in and of itself is not what I mean. I engage with it theology myself and often respect theological thinkers in regards to their arguments. This is always the problem when I try to bring this up: trying to convey that it is a religiosity creeping in, but a fundamental desire that exists as the foundational impetus of what we call religiosity, but which can find expression through other avenues in ways that are not immediately recognized as such.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#43

Post by tazjin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

skrebbel wrote: post #4

I'm sad that some enthusiastic well meaning lefties often associate Peterson with the extreme right. If anything, this man is radically centrist. It's just that he debunks extreme right wing arguments in 5 sentences instead of the 2 hour long talks he uses to address what he calls neo-marxism. I think people like him might very well help keep disgruntled young men away from the extreme right, by offering a moderate a…

It’s when he refers to so-called “cultural marxism” taking over universities and political correctness being a huge problem that sets off warning bells for me.

That's opposition to one extreme of the spectrum, which doesn't necessarily place him at the (perceived) other end.

As a very contrived analogy, you can dislike iOS and not be an Android fan.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#44

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

apocalypstyx wrote: post #28

Having been raised in fundamentalist Christianity, Peterson always sets off preliminary warning bells for me: The enemy is all around you. Access to secret "true" knowledge. The world is corrupt. A plan that if you follow correctly will lead to good things. An enemy that alternates between specific and generalistic states. Everything has to be framed through a set of ideological points at all times, which are reitera…

A warning bell for me is that (in my experience) his fans almost uniformly recommend watching or listening to recordings of Peterson himself speaking. Not transcripts, not articles, not a canon of closely aligned materials by his grad students. The power to convey these truths evidently resides in Peterson and Peterson alone. That suggests to me something closer to a cult of personality than anything like a robust theory.

I'm biased, though, because I find his lectures really difficult to follow. At least in the ones I've watched, he exhibits an oddly rambling style of speech that seems optimized more for some kind of narrative rhythm than for clearly conveying semantic content. He's very good at making it feel like every word is important, but then when I go back and try to figure out the actual statement being made it's like whole sentences just sort of fold in on themselves until nothing is left.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#45

Post by gizmo » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #27

To me, it's a shame (and a sign of where media and culture are, right now) that the drama around pronouns and feminism are what people are jumping at with him. His teachings on the ideas of self identity, motivation, and the redefinition of religion as a system of archetypes and hierarchy are far more interesting and grounded in fact.

Maybe it's because he jump-started his popularity by picking on transgender kids, using the flimsiest possible pretext.

It shouldn't come as a surprise he has nothing of value to say about (identity) politics, because on that topic he doesn't have any expertise. He's just another guy with poorly conceived opinions. On the other hand he has been a clinical psychologist for 20 years and so (surprise!) he has accumulated some valuable insights along the way.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#46

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

tazjin wrote: post #43

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s when he refers to so-called “cultural marxism” taking over universities and political correctness being a huge problem that sets off warning bells for me.

That's opposition to one extreme of the spectrum, which doesn't necessarily place him at the (perceived) other end. As a very contrived analogy, you can dislike iOS and not be an Android fan.

I just don't see it - the universities being taken over by rabid leftists and such. From my point of view, things have changed, they're more inclusive, less deferential, more open and so on, all changes for the better, but obviously disturbing for those used to the old status quo.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#47

Post by zo1 » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #17

skrebbel wrote: post #4

I'm sad that some enthusiastic well meaning lefties often associate Peterson with the extreme right. If anything, this man is radically centrist. It's just that he debunks extreme right wing arguments in 5 sentences instead of the 2 hour long talks he uses to address what he calls neo-marxism. I think people like him might very well help keep disgruntled young men away from the extreme right, by offering a moderate a…

Yeah, he's a celeb on the derp-right because he goes hard on postmodernism and third/fourth wave feminism. That doesn't mean he agrees with the derp-right or the PUA contingent that have latched onto him. I think he gets postmodernism wrong and frankly, so do a lot of postmodernists. I see postmodernism as "Defense Against the Dark Arts". The postmodernist's tool kit -- the silly word games, denial of reality, and so…

Seriously? The "derp-right"? You couldn't convey your points without resulting to that?

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#48

Post by ghoststories » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

skrebbel wrote: post #4

I'm sad that some enthusiastic well meaning lefties often associate Peterson with the extreme right. If anything, this man is radically centrist. It's just that he debunks extreme right wing arguments in 5 sentences instead of the 2 hour long talks he uses to address what he calls neo-marxism. I think people like him might very well help keep disgruntled young men away from the extreme right, by offering a moderate a…

It’s when he refers to so-called “cultural marxism” taking over universities and political correctness being a huge problem that sets off warning bells for me.

What exactly bothers you here?

How else would you refer to the processes that lead to forcing professionals at these universities to use dozens of novel non-binary gender pronouns, or to shield students from content that may be considered "offensive" or "triggering"?

If you don't think those things are in fact serious problems, then I guess you aren't "woke" to that side of the debate. The "campus left" has done everything to brand all dissenters (including Peterson) as fascists, racists and trans/homophobes. That's an even bigger problem, because it signals cult-like behavior.

Maybe it's not bad at your particular university, maybe the examples in the media are not representative, but they are real.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#49

Post by gizmo » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #39

I personally love Noam Chomsky, but he’s not easy to watch speak (very motonous sounding) and his books are also mostly fact-laden. I think he’s toned down his heavy academic style a bit in his newer publications. Still his knowledge and wisdom are second to none IMO

This is somewhat offtopic, but Chomsky speaks that way to stop his detractors from talking about his style. If he's too loud, too animated, too flashy, people will focus on him as a person as opposed to his ideas. His solution is to be as bland as possible, in the hope this forces people to engage with the substance and nothing else.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#50

Post by Fezzius » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #37

I think a lot of why people like him is he speaks so CLEARLY, whether you agree with him or not you thoroughly understand his position, and he usually has some thought-provoking reasons for everything he says or does. I think people are starved for somebody who can be persuasive and calm, not relying on hyperbole or name-calling to make their points, and he shows everybody a way they can do that.

Have you ever listened to him for one hour? He never answers a direct question, it's always wordsalad(no wonder people don't understand him) , he has a few interesting concepts which he repeats constantly His claim to fame is misunderstanding a discrimination law about transgenders. Which is all you need to know about him.