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The radical idea of a world without jobs

theguardian.com

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Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#61

Post by mratzloff »

time_invarient wrote: post #15

I’m stuck in a dead end job right now. I will never be granted a shred of decision making capacity or autonomy. It is a waiting game. Waiting for more assignments. Waiting until 5PM. Waiting for my paycheck. Waiting to get fired. Waiting to retire. Waiting to die. ( n * (Commute. Sit. Wait. Commute. Eat. Sleep.)) Die. Where n == the days I have left in this world. The things I work on feel like absurd, meaningless bo…

Your dissatisfaction comes from looking to work for meaning. There is no implicit meaning—only that which you create for yourself.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#62

Post by ddnb »

SherlockeHolmes wrote: post #9
fredley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we do build fully-automated and autonomous means to grow/build/create everything we need, identity in this era is still overwhelmingly rooted in our jobs. I am a Developer, she is a farmer, he is a doctor. If all the jobs go to robots, what are we? Ask any jobless person for whom no job exists how they feel about life.

this is assuming that new industries shall not develop once complete automation (of those possible) is achieved. engineering jobs - for example - should branch out to many more folds of specializations compared to where they are now.

Won't those, once complete automation is achieved, be automated?

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#63

Post by kowdermeister »

fredley wrote: post #3
gaius wrote: post #2

In 1845, Karl Marx wrote that in a communist society workers would be freed from the monotony of a single draining job to “hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner” Starve in the morning, starve in the afternoon, starve in the evening, self-criticise instead of dinner. FTFY.

Even if we do build fully-automated and autonomous means to grow/build/create everything we need, identity in this era is still overwhelmingly rooted in our jobs. I am a Developer, she is a farmer, he is a doctor. If all the jobs go to robots, what are we? Ask any jobless person for whom no job exists how they feel about life.

The question will change. In your scenario, it will be an outdated thing to ask. Language change all the time following social changes.

It might be like:

- What's your recent?

- How's your hobjob?

- How's your AI farm?

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#64

Post by Joe-Z »

ThePadawan wrote: post #30
zimzim wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you mean stuck? what do you do after 5 that is so meaningless?

not OP, but can relate: The less meaningful work I get done during the day, the less energy I have after 5. Most days, I'll make quick dinner, turn on YouTube, watch videos for 10 minutes, and suddenly it's 11pm.

You just described my life for the past 3 months. It's winter though, so I just attributed it to that. Also I'll be quitting my job soon and then go somewhere where I don't have to deal with dark, cold winters anymore.

I guess there's an upside to being a long-time single with no attachments.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#65

Post by carlmr »

clarry wrote: post #47
swalsh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conversations I feel always seem shallow to me. Automation is definitely helping to free us from a lot of work.. but the world we live in today feels like a preview of what an automated world feels like. In reality, our material lifestyle is still supported by a very large number of people working away in countries most Americans can't find on a map for extremely low wages. If we're going to talk about "reorgan…

> Automation is definitely helping to free us from a lot of work.. but the world we live in today feels like a preview of what an automated world feels like. In reality, our material lifestyle is still supported by a very large number of people working away in countries most Americans can't find on a map for extremely low wages. I don't know about you but the homes, roads, cars, plumbing, healthcare, energy, food, an…

>And even where Asian products are popular (e.g. big home appliances), European alternatives do exist.

I can think of Miele. That's the only one that's propely German still. Bosch/Siemens are both very much Asian on the inside. They do some assembly in Germany as far as I know. Can't think of any other European brands in this space.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#66

Post by clarry »

amelius wrote: post #17

I want a world where it is more clear what we should work on. Most startups come up with solutions looking for a problem. Yet if people or companies formulated their problems more directly, we wouldn't have to guess at them. As a consequence, work would be more meaningful and more effective.

I don't think there's enough meaningful work to do. Or, whatever meaningful work there is can't be done because it doesn't pay the bills. The reality is that people work for money. Companies exist to make money.

Startups do what they do because they hope to find gold.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#67

Post by adrianN »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #33
time_invarient wrote: post #15

I’m stuck in a dead end job right now. I will never be granted a shred of decision making capacity or autonomy. It is a waiting game. Waiting for more assignments. Waiting until 5PM. Waiting for my paycheck. Waiting to get fired. Waiting to retire. Waiting to die. ( n * (Commute. Sit. Wait. Commute. Eat. Sleep.)) Die. Where n == the days I have left in this world. The things I work on feel like absurd, meaningless bo…

What makes you stuck? You sound like you've accepted your fate. If you want to change things, just do it. If your reality is so bad that you want to die, then how is taking action to potentially change things worse? A big part of this discussion is people want meaningful work and a meaningful life, but they want other people to give it to them. Why is that expected?

Meaningful work doesn't grow on trees.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#68

Post by aalleavitch »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #54
aalleavitch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people get caught in situations where furthering their career and eating next week are mutually exclusive propositions.

If actual slaves were able to escape and make their way to freedom and satisfying lives, then surely office workers can do the same.

Ah yes "if your life sucks, just be one of the small percentage of people who succeed in overcoming the massive challenges stacked against you, there's nothing unreasonable about expecting that out of every individual".

Unless, of course, you're saying we need to start a civil war to free all the office workers...

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#69

Post by Clubber »

mseebach wrote: post #27
sirmoveon wrote: post #19

The world will never be without jobs; work will just become detached from financial productivity and wellbeing

It already it. Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. It's just that our standards and expectation for wellbeing shifts, and shifts quickly.

>Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing.

Sort of. For the week, I would agree, for a lifetime, not so sure about that. I mean what happens when you are unable to work? That could come sooner or later, but when it does come, you will need a chunk of change to get you through the rest of your life. Also, at the other end of life, children can't work until 16, so someone needs a chunk of change to take care of them too.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#70

Post by JulianMorrison »

time_invarient wrote: post #15

I’m stuck in a dead end job right now. I will never be granted a shred of decision making capacity or autonomy. It is a waiting game. Waiting for more assignments. Waiting until 5PM. Waiting for my paycheck. Waiting to get fired. Waiting to retire. Waiting to die. ( n * (Commute. Sit. Wait. Commute. Eat. Sleep.)) Die. Where n == the days I have left in this world. The things I work on feel like absurd, meaningless bo…

So rise up and fight. Worst case you're already dead.
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