Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#421

Post by jeremysalwen » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:42 AM UTC

danjayh wrote: post #402

rlanday wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people like corporate taxes because people only have a vague idea of where the incidence actually falls. Clearly, at the end of the day, corporate taxes take money out of the pockets of business owners/shareholders, employees, and customers in some proportion, but no one's really sure what it is. Taxes that you're obviously paying are unpopular, whereas taxes it feels like "someone else" is paying are less un…

My father, who is quite wise and right about many things, is very fond of stating that corporation's don't pay taxes - they just pass them on to other people. He owned a local redi-mix company until he retired, and they routinely adjusted wages and prices in response to local, state, and federal tax changes. It's a fact of life that the money corporations pay comes from somewhere, whether it's on the 'in' side or the…

One of those "out" sides of the balance sheet is the owners of the corporation. That's generally who people think of when they think of who "pays" corporate tax. Especially for taxes on profits, which go 100% to the owners.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#422

Post by dang » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

croon wrote: post #240

airstrike wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not. I know lots of Apple workers (directly or indirectly) are in China, but I wanted to point out why it's inappropriate to compare personal and corporate taxes.

> I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not. That's like saying the wheat creates work for the mill to make flour. You can't have one without the other. Can we just get rid of the ridiculous notion that corporations provide more than the workers doing the actual work ?

Would you please not use uppercase for emphasis in HN comments? It's basically yelling, and the site guidelines ask you not to.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#423

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:50 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #399

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure no one who was making minimum wage got a $1000 bonus (including at Walmart, who would be making min wage after being there for 20 years? Sounds like a store manager or district sup to me). So I'm not happy for them because they don't exist.

AT&T claimed that it paid the bonus to 200k employees https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-g... They have a total of about 250k employees worldwide: https://www.att.com/Common/about_us/pdf/att_btn.pdf . Pretty sure there 80% of their workforce are not district supervisors and store managers. Comcast said it paid the bonus to 100k employees "that are eligible and not in executive roles". > So I'm…

I’m pretty sure AT&T and Comcast don’t employ many min wage workers, especially not like Walmart does, if any at all.

> Comcast said it paid the bonus to 100k employees "that are eligible and not in executive roles".

But neither did they say they were making min wage. And then ...

> Good news, I think I found them!

You aren’t making a valid inference here, it honestly feels like something Trump would claim.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#424

Post by ojbyrne » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

benjaminl wrote: post #253

This discussion is missing context. The whole reason that Apple has to pay taxes on foreign income is because unlike almost every other developed nation the US has a worldwide tax system. Almost every other nation has a territorial tax system. The rest of the world with their territorial system taxes income earned within that country, the US rather taxes income worldwide, regardless of where it is earned. For example…

It’s kind of obnoxious that they reformed this for corporations but not for individuals.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#425

Post by ogre_magi » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

prklmn wrote: post #206

ogre_magi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very virtuous and your political opponents are very gross.

I heard Stalin was good on taxes as well. There are bigger issues than taxes, my friend.

We probably disagree on the big issues too. I'm not gonna call you "revolting," though.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#426

Post by KKKKkkkk1 » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:11 AM UTC

benjaminl wrote: post #253

This discussion is missing context. The whole reason that Apple has to pay taxes on foreign income is because unlike almost every other developed nation the US has a worldwide tax system. Almost every other nation has a territorial tax system. The rest of the world with their territorial system taxes income earned within that country, the US rather taxes income worldwide, regardless of where it is earned. For example…

Does that transition to a territorial system apply only to corporations or do individuals count too? American expats are among the few in the world who have to pay taxes to the mothership no matter how long they live abroad.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#427

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:15 AM UTC

Pulcinella wrote: post #330

IBM wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you get a credit for the foreign taxes paid, but even still it's absurdly punitive for being an American corporation.

I would not consider taxes to be “punitive.” Taxes aren’t punishment. They are much more like a membership fee.

[deleted]

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#428

Post by IncRnd » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:45 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #268

onezerozeroone wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

If they bring the money back then inevitably they'd spend it back into the US economy either through direct job creation or buying things. If they do create jobs, the US gets most of its money from income tax, which would increase from the more jobs/higher wages. It feels like double dipping if we expect them to pay taxes on repatriating the money and then also taxing the wages that the repatriated money allows them…

> It feels like double dipping if we expect them to pay taxes on repatriating the money and then also taxing the wages that the repatriated money allows them to pay.

That is how our federal government constantly engages in double taxation. A corporation makes money + pays taxes, then pays employees who pay taxes. Those employees buy goods and services as well as have their own companies, all of which pay taxes on their incomes.

After five layers of this double-dipping, an initial million dollars only has $327,000 left, with the other two thirds having been paid in taxes (at an average of only 20%). Many people pay far more than 20% in federal taxes. The federal government takes in taxes most of every dollar this way.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#429

Post by Someone » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:50 AM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #205

How realistic is it that a $5 billion fund can move a non-trivial amount of iPhone manufacturing to the US? Most of the BOM supply chain is in Asia, and assembly at FoxConn I heard amounts to 3% of the cost. It seems like Apple would have to build mostly automated assembly in the US or suffer severe margin reduction, and they'd suffer turnaround issues with the crucial components being still sourced in China. However…

”How realistic is it that a $5 billion fund can move a non-trivial amount of iPhone manufacturing to the US?”

Neither the now-referenced page from Reuters nor Apple’s press release mention that. They will invest in their domestic suppliers and manufacturers, but that’s it, manufacturing-wise.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

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Post by IncRnd » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:53 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #318

downandout wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been 14 years, which included 8 years of tax-hungry Democratic rule. So it is at least somewhat unique.

Lol, only US Republicans can see US Democrats as "tax hungry". Both the Clinton and Obama administrations were extremely business-friendly.

Really? Have you investigated how many countries on the planet tax their citizens and corporations making money in other countries?

The US marginal corporate tax rate is 38.92% compared to the worldwide average 22.5%. Until this recent tax bill passed, the US has had the 3rd highest marginal corporate tax rate in the world, surpassed only by the UAE and Puerto Rico.

The US federal government is greedy for cash not business friendly.