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Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

reuters.com

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Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#231

Post by Firebrand »

downandout wrote: post #156
lbrdn wrote: post #126

Of course lowering taxes would encourage companies to repatriate large overseas cash hoards, but if that's the only goal, why have a tax at all? As a country the US has obligations to its current citizens and its future citizens and those obligations cost money. If we overly celebrate these windfalls every time the tax rate is lowered, we might not realize that what we owe the citizen is being forgot and allowed to e…

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received. $38,000,000,000 > $0

There are no repatriation taxes anymore. The new law did away with them.

I know tax isn't, like, simple, but it's not that complicated.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#232

Post by downandout »

Firebrand wrote: post #231
downandout wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received. $38,000,000,000 > $0

There are no repatriation taxes anymore. The new law did away with them. I know tax isn't, like, simple, but it's not that complicated.

Not sure where you're getting your information, but that is simply incorrect. The repatriated cash is simply being taxed at a lower rate. Hence the $38 billion.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#233

Post by airstrike »

onezerozeroone wrote: post #213
downandout wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received. $38,000,000,000 > $0

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not.

I know lots of Apple workers (directly or indirectly) are in China, but I wanted to point out why it's inappropriate to compare personal and corporate taxes.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#234

Post by pishpash »

downandout wrote: post #156
lbrdn wrote: post #126

Of course lowering taxes would encourage companies to repatriate large overseas cash hoards, but if that's the only goal, why have a tax at all? As a country the US has obligations to its current citizens and its future citizens and those obligations cost money. If we overly celebrate these windfalls every time the tax rate is lowered, we might not realize that what we owe the citizen is being forgot and allowed to e…

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received. $38,000,000,000 > $0

You make it sound like there was no alternative. You can also tax income when it's earned, instead of when it's repatriated. That's how individuals are taxed on their foreign income. There were also other variants proposed.

In any case, the reason that corporations lobbied so hard for this particular tax code change was that they actually needed to repatriate money ASAP. Interest rates are going up. Their operational tactic of borrowing low-interest money against their overseas cash to repurchase shares is ending and they needed their cash. They would have repatriated anyway. Now you can kiss that tax money goodbye, just like you can kiss goodbye to the tax money on the free stepped-up basis that large estates will be passing on for the eight years.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#235

Post by SapphireSun »

This is a diversion tactic.

They're grabbing 252.3B and spending less than a fifth of it. Let's imagine a different world. 200B, divided by 50k + 1.5x overhead (75k) could create about 2.6M decent jobs for one year (or 1.3M for two years etc).

2.6M jobs is equal to 0.8% of the total US population. The total labor force size is about 160M (~1/2 the total population) and the U6 measure of unemployment is about 8%. A healthy U6 is probably closer to 6% (from around 2000). That 2% of 160M is 3.2M jobs. Thus, in one fell swoop without even affecting operations overly much, Apple could reduce the magnitude of the economic crisis by a little over 2/3.

These are astonishing numbers that would have real impacts on people's lives. Imagine what we could do with the profits of the other large conglomerates.

Instead, they're spending a tiny amount on PR and reduced taxes that they lobbied heavily for to do what? Probably stock buy backs. The adulation of the rich and powerful continues at the expense of the working class.

EDIT: added some comparison numbers

EDIT: You guys are too much! So many questions, keep on asking, but I'll have to let others answer. I have other things to do today. Keep thinking critically about the political economy of the system. :)

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#236

Post by Retric »

airstrike wrote: post #233
onezerozeroone wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not. I know lots of Apple workers (directly or indirectly) are in China, but I wanted to point out why it's inappropriate to compare personal and corporate taxes.

I create jobs all the time. Companies employ people based on Demand not simply whimsy.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#237

Post by axau »

onezerozeroone wrote: post #221
axau wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US is not going “down a path that neglects its obligations”. In fact quite the opposite since it just got a massive tax revenue increase. So comparing it to a situation where the US decided to just stop levying tax doesn’t make sense.

> In fact quite the opposite since it just got a massive tax revenue increase. Nah, they capitulated and accepted a far lower rate than they should have received otherwise if Apple (and companies like them) weren't permitted to play these shifty legal games. If the U.S. gov was really looking out for its own interests and the interests of its citizens, it would have closed these loopholes years ago and told Apple to…

Whether or not Apple/whatever was being shifty or not is a matter of opinion. The fact is, though, that nearly every other country already had a territorial tax system.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#238

Post by autokad »

gonvaled wrote: post #198
axau wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US is not going “down a path that neglects its obligations”. In fact quite the opposite since it just got a massive tax revenue increase. So comparing it to a situation where the US decided to just stop levying tax doesn’t make sense.

It legislated a reduction in tax revenue hoping / pretending that an increase in economic activity will offset the reduction. Fact 1: reduced tax rate and revenue Fact 2: permanent beneffit to corporations, in the form of tax reductions Bet 1: the economy will grow Bet 2: the proffits will trickle down Bet 3: increase in economy will allow to fullfill obligations If the bets do not materialize, nobody cares. That is,…

i already received 1,000$, to which I spent on a new energy efficient door, to which I paid a handyman to install it. there is a lot more winners than your dogma suggests.

I am interested in seeing where this goes. if we do see wage growth from it, it provides evidence to a lot of questions about how the cost of healthcare was squeezing out our wages. if it doesnt, then a lot of complaints about corporations will have a lot more evidence.

putting all that aside, this news about apple bringing over the cash is a huge win for everyone. having that money sit and do nothing was pretty much bad for everyone.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#240

Post by croon »

airstrike wrote: post #233
onezerozeroone wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or I decided we just didn't like the tax rate that applied to us and didn't pay our taxes for decades at a time on income we made overseas, what do you think would happen? Corporations are treated as people only when it's convenient. You and I don't have high-powered lawyers, lobbyists, loopholes, offshore accounts, subsidiaries, etc to hide behind. This is an insult to every U.S. citizen...Apple wouldn't exis…

I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not. I know lots of Apple workers (directly or indirectly) are in China, but I wanted to point out why it's inappropriate to compare personal and corporate taxes.

> I get your point. Only caveat is corporations also create jobs and pay their workers, but you and I as individuals do not.

That's like saying the wheat creates work for the mill to make flour.

You can't have one without the other. Can we just get rid of the ridiculous notion that corporations provide more than the workers doing the actual work?

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