Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized • Hacker News Board

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#101

Post by seattle_spring » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 4:15 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #92

briandear wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> women are hired for only 19 percent of chef positions, for example, even though traditionally most women are more likely to do a majority of the cooking at home. This is a ridiculous statement. Cooking at home has zero to do with going to culinary school and becoming a chef. If you visit most restaurant kitchens -- the line cooks and dishwashers are almost always men (or at least 80%+ of them,) based on my experien…

>> women are hired for only 19 percent of chef positions, for example, even though traditionally most women are more likely to do a majority of the cooking at home. > If you visit most restaurant kitchens -- the line cooks and dishwashers are almost always men So your argument is that the discrimination begins much earlier in the chain?

Line cooks make a lot less than wait staff. So what you're saying is that it's actually men who are discriminated against!?

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#102

Post by eqtn » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 4:51 AM UTC

s73ver_ wrote: post #44

neaanopri wrote: post #33

Why would anybody tip if the tip doesn't go to the server? That's the only reason that I tip.

I doubt that's going to be publicized.

It should be put in bold letters in restaurants that "Tipping is optional". Or get rid of tipping fully and pay minimum wage.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#103

Post by tzs » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 4:59 AM UTC

MollyR wrote: post #36

I hate tipping culture. When I was young and a waitress in college, I noticed horrible racism from waiters who treated minorities badly due to tipping stereotypes. Please just get rid of it for living wages.

There have been quite a few articles on this.

http://www.ebony.com/news-views/are-black-people-really-bad-...

http://freakonomics.com/2008/03/20/the-racial-tipping-point/

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=132924...

http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic... (This one is a survey of the research literature on this)

Summary: there are racial differences in tipping in the US. They persist even after controlling for socioeconomic status. Servers (both white and black) treat expected poor tippers worse than expected good tippers. No one is sure why there is this difference.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#104

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #54

School-Cotton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to receive worse service in the US than in almost any other country I've been to. Other countries: you get the waiter's attention when you want to order something. Normally, it goes smoothly and they leave you alone. US: the waiter comes over every five minutes to check on you, annoying you and interrupting conversations. They pretend to be nice and overly friendly, and often flirt with you for money. Alternat…

Assuming that you are correct in your assessment that the U.S. generally has poor service, that fact would not necessarily contradict the above poster's point that tipping results in higher-quality service in the U.S. You are applying standards from other countries and cultures and assuming that it would work just as well over here. How American of you! :) Edit: This is a more general comment that addresses the conce…

[deleted]

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#105

Post by tzs » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:20 AM UTC

eqtn wrote: post #102

s73ver_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that's going to be publicized.

It should be put in bold letters in restaurants that "Tipping is optional". Or get rid of tipping fully and pay minimum wage.

Won't most people still assume that if they do supply the optional tip it will go to their waiter (with perhaps some also going to the busboy and/or cook)?

There needs to be a sign that explains how tips are actually distributed.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#106

Post by chrismcb » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:59 AM UTC

manicdee wrote: post #84

ex3ndr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been in countries without tipping culture? Almost all of them have much worse service quality.

I live in Australia where tipping is either frowned upon or reserved for exemplary service. Perhaps your idea of “good service” is coloured by your own culture. For example in the USA it is rude to summon a waiter while everywhere else it is rude for the waiter to intrude. There are also different signals such as ROTW putting cutlery together to signify “I am finished” and crossed to signify “still eating”, or whethe…

You are the second comment that claims it is due in America to soon a waiter... As an American that is complete news to me, and I would think many other Americans would be shocked to discover it is rude. How else are you supposed to get something?

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#107

Post by Johnny555 » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #101

Johnny555 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> women are hired for only 19 percent of chef positions, for example, even though traditionally most women are more likely to do a majority of the cooking at home. > If you visit most restaurant kitchens -- the line cooks and dishwashers are almost always men So your argument is that the discrimination begins much earlier in the chain?

Line cooks make a lot less than wait staff. So what you're saying is that it's actually men who are discriminated against!?

More men are ending up in line-cook positions that are on the career track to high paying chef positions, yet you think it's the men that are being shortchanged?

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#108

Post by m_t » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 11:18 AM UTC

PostOnce wrote: post #77

Fede_V wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in France for a year before moving to the US. Even though French waiters are notorious for having terrible service, I always received excellent service by being very polite to the waiters. The idea that you are entitled to excellent service because you are paying is pernicious. If you want excellent service, treat people excellently.

Excellent service should be the default, and you only lose it by being an asshole; in other words, I'm not paying for the privilege of having to work extra hard just to get decent service. Literally the only thing you are paying for is service (the services of cooking and waiting on you), otherwise you'd be eating at home.

> I'm not paying for the privilege of having to work extra hard

If being polite to people is working extra hard, that might be the cause of the bad service you receive.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#109

Post by SFjulie1 » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 11:51 AM UTC

When I was living in Montréal, the boss were already stealing the tips of my wife that was paid the minimum.

It was a common practice there. They say sold it to their employees as a way to socialize the benefits so that there were no discriminations in the tips.

To the reluctants they just said, the one who pays make the rules, and if it does not suit you go else where, anyway, we all do the same.

It resulted in

1) the owner getting is "fair" share 2) the fair share would sometimes goes up to 100% of the tips.

Re: Women would lose $4.6B in earned tips if ‘tip stealing’ rule is finalized

#110

Post by greedo » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

lev99 wrote: post #35

greedo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the wait staff has so much control over restaurant cleanliness, food quality and temperature etc etc etc...

The tip goes to the wait staff. The bill goes to the chief/ingredients/building upkeep/owner. Tipping won't improve the entire experience, but it can improve the service.

Tips rarely go to only the wait staff. Most restaurants pool their tips (for accounting/tax tracking), and share them with busboys, hostesses, wait staff, line cooks, and even dishwashers. At the restaurant I worked at in the 80's, the management even skimmed some for themselves.